jwb

he suspended aid to the Ukraine a few days before calling and asking them to try to dig up dirt on a political rival. He moved the tapes to a classified server that is meant for info sensitive for national security reasons - which this is not. Now he's issuing thinly veiled death threats to the whistleblower and people in his own administration that cooperate. He acts more like a mafia don than a prez.

Biden and his son are dirty in the Ukraine too though. But you're insane to think this isn't worthy of impeachment.

jwb

unfortunately things are currently trending that way

I have a feeling she'd be Obama 2.0

The Batlord

It's not the first thing worthy of impeachment and I'm sure it won't be the last. Donald Trump is incapable of controlling his own behavior. But so long as the Democrats don't control the Senate that's a moot point and I doubt the American public will be all that amazed by anything considering what they've shrugged their shoulders about thus far. So I really don't see any winning endgame here for the Democrats. At best they'll exchange pointless broadsides that will result in a political stalemate. But they'll probably just embolden the opposition while pointing out some stupid **** Biden did.

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The Batlord

An impeachment isn't politics. It's TV. There's plenty of actual politics that goes on in Washington but by the time it gets to the point of impeachment the politics is already decided and its the TV audience who are the point.

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jwb

Our memory is short

Yea impeachment arguably helped Clinton's image

But it destroyed Nixon.

The devil is in the details. I don't think it's necessary they actually remove him from office via impeachment. The worse they can make him look before the election, the better for them. The only real risk is that the American people percieve it as an arbitrary witch-hunt like they did with Clinton and then it backfires.

jwb

I honestly have gotten to the point where part of me thinks he's too dangerous to leave in office, and the other part thinks that if the Dems got someone like Biden in that i would almost prefer Trump because at least he is stirring up genuine opposition.

Like I gave up on american politics by 2012. Can you imagine we would even possibly be debating things like single payer, free college, reparations, UBI if that mullet head fembot Hillary won in 2016? It would be business as usual.

But the danger he represents is the precedents he sets. Like you said if he is that invincible... You really think he'll be the last one to exploit that? Presidents are getting stronger and more powerful with each successive generation. Once you summon that genie there's no putting it back in the bottle.

The Batlord

Yeah definitely. I don't think Trump should be allowed to not be impeached for at least something, but I think ultimately it will be hollow. If he can get away with putting children in concentration camps then we are too far gone for this to truly matter.

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OccultHawk

The house impeaching him is basically just calling him a bad boy if I understand it correctly.

Is it more than just a chastisement?

jwb

well that's just a matter of what is impeachable and what isn't. Nixon did way worse **** than Watergate.

jwb

it's likely not going to pan out as removing him from office by impeachment because of the Republican lead Senate. But it could serve for a good bit of political cannon fodder heading into an election.

So yes it's more than just the chastisement they could do without an impeachment inquiry. It will presumably make it harder for the white House to stone wall to the same extent.

Like ant mentioned why not go after his tax returns... They have been, in rhetoric. Trump just stone walls. They will never socially pressure him into divulging anything he doesn't have to. They have to turn up the actual legal pressure.