Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'm not clear on whether he's including unemployment as well

in which case if you're a laid off Midwest factory worker, you're very likely already receiving 1k from the gov a month

unemployment is temporary by nature. When you get a new job you will benefit.

Honestly I know this is a foreign concept to you but if you just keep throwing more and more money at someone then that eventually gets pretty expensive and people don't have any incentive to earn their own income.

Bottom line is that people on the dole for 1000 bucks a month get zero dollars extra under UBI and zero dollars extra under Bernie's plans. People who work, pay taxes and are still low income benefit under UBI.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 09:01 PM

And here's the real bottom line... If it were just a matter of UBI doesn't pay enough or that the requirements are unfair... Sanders would just pay more and change the requirements.

Not only does he know that would be a disaster... He doesn't have faith that Yang's current UBI framework is mainstream enough. So his answer is you can work for the govt. Cause he doesn't want to hand out checks for nothing. Same as his policy on reparations.

The Batlord · 09-04-2019, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Honestly I know this is a foreign concept to you but if you just keep throwing more and more money at someone then that eventually gets pretty expensive and people don't have any incentive to earn their own income.

Honestly I think this is a partially bogus argument. I work ****ing fast food with people you'd imagine would give the least ****s, and while they do, they generally have the infuriating quality of valuing their productivity as a badge of honor, at least on some level. Tell them that they have a worthless job and they're liable to start getting offended no matter how depressing it is to have to get satisfaction from being good at constructing "hamburgers" on the world's least impressive assembly line. People are tied to their self-worth derived from work to a degree that isn't rational. Even I find myself taking pride in this or that bull**** achievement or piece of praise at work sometimes and I hate it.

DwnWthVwls · 09-04-2019, 09:20 PM

They only tell you that because they think your crazy and never know when you may go all juggalo on them. Does that make you feel better?

The Batlord · 09-04-2019, 09:23 PM

Thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

DwnWthVwls · 09-04-2019, 09:27 PM

OccultHawk · 09-04-2019, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

weird argument to make in this case

I'm supporting giving people a job vs. 1k a month

That’s where we part seeing as I’d rather make do with just 1K than work.

~~jwb~~ · 09-05-2019, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Honestly I think this is a partially bogus argument. I work ****ing fast food with people you'd imagine would give the least ****s, and while they do, they generally have the infuriating quality of valuing their productivity as a badge of honor, at least on some level. Tell them that they have a worthless job and they're liable to start getting offended no matter how depressing it is to have to get satisfaction from being good at constructing "hamburgers" on the world's least impressive assembly line. People are tied to their self-worth derived from work to a degree that isn't rational. Even I find myself taking pride in this or that bull**** achievement or piece of praise at work sometimes and I hate it.

I agree people like to feel useful, and if you are going to do a job you might as well do it right.

But regardless if what they say, most of those people are stuck working those jobs by monetary incentive. If you remove that incentive I'm guessing most people would find other ways to feel useful

Take for example the idea you should give 1k per kid on top of 1k for the adults. The argument Yang makes for his number is that most people really don't want to live on 12k a year and would still be motivated to find other sources of income. So if you take the mother with 3 kids... That's obviously true for her. It's not necessarily true if she's bringing in 48k on the basis of having 3 kids. That's a reasonably comfortable lifestyle with no real incentive to work.

Vvj

~~jwb~~ · 09-05-2019, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

weird argument to make in this case

I'm supporting giving people a job vs. 1k a month

Fair enough, I was just saying that proposal strikes me as more conservative than free money.

For me personally, I might usually make around 20k a year at most jobs I work. With UBI that bumps up to 32k. Depending on what the government job is and how much it pays, it might or might not be preferable for me to UBI.

~~jwb~~ · 09-05-2019, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

That’s where we part seeing as I’d rather make do with just 1K than work.

You're in the extreme minority. 12k a year is not s sufficient to live on in most places.

09-04-2019, 09:01 PM	#3292 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	And here's the real bottom line... If it were just a matter of UBI doesn't pay enough or that the requirements are unfair... Sanders would just pay more and change the requirements. Not only does he know that would be a disaster... He doesn't have faith that Yang's current UBI framework is mainstream enough. So his answer is you can work for the govt. Cause he doesn't want to hand out checks for nothing. Same as his policy on reparations.