Political Discussions for "Adults"

OccultHawk · 09-03-2019, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

all he's gonna accomplish is associating UBI with the Alt Right

I’m worried he’s setting the cause back too, tbh

It’s a fantastic concept.

Anteater · 09-04-2019, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Unless he's since changed it, he said it was specifically either or

in essence, if you're currently recieving $300 in food stamps your actual gain is $700

Bernie's college plan would save someone like me soooo much more money

Yang might end up giving you free education too. He's a flexible guy. What I can say for sure, however, is Bernie is never going to implement ANY form of UBI.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Unless he's since changed it, he said it was specifically either or

in essence, if you're currently recieving $300 in food stamps your actual gain is $700

Yeah, that's fair to me. He's just trying to make it palatable. Meanwhile without UBI your gain is $0 regardless.

It's not supposed to be your only or even your primary source of income. It's supposed to be a supplement to what you earn.

Same with the 18 years old thing. Making it for every kid will just create the incentive to reproduce irresponsibly and live off the money you get per kid. That's how some current welfare works. It also has a negative incentive on getting a job to bring in more income. I grew up watching my parents and my friends parents work under the table/illegally to avoid losing other forms of assistance.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

all he's gonna accomplish is associating UBI with the Alt Right

the longer he's in the race the further he sets it back

...UBI wasn't even on the radar before his campaign. He's injecting it into the public discourse. The only people who think he's alt right are people who want to stamp out any competition to Bernie.

OccultHawk · 09-04-2019, 08:38 AM

We should at least offer to pay people who are willing to be sterilized to counteract those who use babies as a paycheck. Either way you gotta keep those bellies full but why not give the same incentive not to breed? Respect both lifestyle choices.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 12:08 PM

It's a tricky situation because obviously you don't want the kids to be deprived, but you also don't want people to have the incentive to have another kid they can't afford.

But I would have to say... The struggling mother with 3 kids is still 12k a year richer under UBI than she is currently, so I really don't see how you can frame it as being bad for her.

The idea Yang is saying just UBI and then nothing else changes is not an accurate portrayal of what he's saying. He supports things like single payer etc and has also stated UBI isn't the end-all solution but rather a starting place to build on.

That being said I'm not against Bernie, I just think that the reason him and other progressives aren't embracing UBI is cause they are already percieved as running on giving out free **** by a lot of people and they don't want to push it over the top by writing an actual check to all Americans.

I think Yang isn't particularly likely to win but what he is likely to do is inject the UBI idea into the public consciousness so that maybe at some point it will gain enough mainstream traction to be embraced and possibly implemented by future administrations.

The Batlord · 09-04-2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I think Yang isn't particularly likely to win but what he is likely to do is inject the UBI idea into the public consciousness so that maybe at some point it will gain enough mainstream traction to be embraced and possibly implemented by future administrations.

Church.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 06:32 PM

If that's the case then yes. It may not benefit everyone, especially people already living on the dole. But there are plenty of poor people it would benefit.

I think the welfare loophole is basically just to make it more palatable like I said. It's going to be hard enough to get it passed even the way Yang frames it. Start giving 1k a month to every kid who isn't even paying taxes or contributing to the economy and you make it not only more unlikely to pass, but also much more expensive.

Anteater · 09-04-2019, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's more palatable to a specific group of already middle class primarily young white men

the bulk of his constituancy

4chan NEETs

There are people of every race and creed all throughout middle America, living in towns and places where jobs are few and opportunities are even fewer. A household with two parents and two high school seniors generates 4k a month just off UBI. When your living in the middle of nowhere and you need money or at least a legitimate economic stimulus in your community, that's a helluva lot better than what Bernie is offering.

~~jwb~~ · 09-04-2019, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's more palatable to a specific group of already middle class primarily young white men

the bulk of his constituancy

4chan NEETs

it's more palatable to mainstream American presidential politics. And it gives most poor people a good supplement to their income. If Bernie proposed it you would be on board.

09-04-2019, 08:38 AM	#3285 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	We should at least offer to pay people who are willing to be sterilized to counteract those who use babies as a paycheck. Either way you gotta keep those bellies full but why not give the same incentive not to breed? Respect both lifestyle choices. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

09-04-2019, 12:08 PM	#3286 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	It's a tricky situation because obviously you don't want the kids to be deprived, but you also don't want people to have the incentive to have another kid they can't afford. But I would have to say... The struggling mother with 3 kids is still 12k a year richer under UBI than she is currently, so I really don't see how you can frame it as being bad for her. The idea Yang is saying just UBI and then nothing else changes is not an accurate portrayal of what he's saying. He supports things like single payer etc and has also stated UBI isn't the end-all solution but rather a starting place to build on. That being said I'm not against Bernie, I just think that the reason him and other progressives aren't embracing UBI is cause they are already percieved as running on giving out free **** by a lot of people and they don't want to push it over the top by writing an actual check to all Americans. I think Yang isn't particularly likely to win but what he is likely to do is inject the UBI idea into the public consciousness so that maybe at some point it will gain enough mainstream traction to be embraced and possibly implemented by future administrations.

09-04-2019, 06:32 PM	#3288 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	If that's the case then yes. It may not benefit everyone, especially people already living on the dole. But there are plenty of poor people it would benefit. I think the welfare loophole is basically just to make it more palatable like I said. It's going to be hard enough to get it passed even the way Yang frames it. Start giving 1k a month to every kid who isn't even paying taxes or contributing to the economy and you make it not only more unlikely to pass, but also much more expensive.