Political Discussions for "Adults"

**Marie Monday** · 08-13-2019, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Would of course still be great if at some point humanity would be able to leave identities or at least such silly concepts of identity behind altogether.

I agree.
The whole gender matter depends on how you define gender. I think that in an ideal world gender would be equal to sex and there would no other parts of your identity be attached to it. Then there would be two genders (plus hermaphrodites). However, it's sensible to adapt to the fact that gender means more right now, in which case it becomes a more complicated concept with more variations. Still, I think we should keep the ideal in mind where your sex is no part of your identity whatsoever.
A lot of that reasoning is based on my personal experience though. I pretty much identified as a boy as a kid (at least I wanted to) until I realized that I could have my identity in a girl's body if I chose not to conform to gender norms. Puberty might also have played a part, in any case, my attitude towards my own gender shifted at some point.

**Marie Monday** · 08-13-2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I agree but were, in part, talking white men and women that are maybe a little different from the american standard claiming some gender like theyre so different they need a special title. They arent actually marginalized its practically munchausens on the extreme end. And yes **** tribalism and our inability to use reason to look past it.

It really goed a lot further than that in terms of being different and marginalisation. Really. And of course, **** tribalism, but it is a matter of asking for understanding and acceptance. When things get intolerant, for instance with people being ostracised for using the wrong pronoun accidentally, that's something different. I think we can all agree that that's not a good thing, that's not what this is about.

DwnWthVwls · 08-13-2019, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

What special treatment are they asking for apart from "let us be ourselves"?

What about yourself is it that has a history of hate crimes targeting people with that trait?

Its almost like you read nothing and decided to comment. Hmm.

**Marie Monday** · 08-13-2019, 08:58 AM

How? I'd sincerely like to hear your answer
To Frowns questions I mean

**Frownland** · 08-13-2019, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Its almost like you read nothing and decided to comment. Hmm.

You're referring to me not addressing your attempt to define nonbinary people by the imaginary self-aggrandizing trendhopper, right?

DwnWthVwls · 08-13-2019, 09:53 AM

Nah. I said special title not special treatment. Pronoun usage aside i dont think they ask for much but its pretty hilarious they get lumped with lgbtq who actually have been historically marginalized. People who are different from normal social structures all deal with bullying and pressure, child/adult/man/woman, anyone who isnt cis gender is probably being targeted because theyre “weird” and mostly make no sense not because they arent cis (in most cases, no one would even know if they didnt say anything). Im not justifying this behavior towards them but i also dont think they need their own gender in the infinite spectrum. What does it mean to you when someone tells you they are nonbinary? That literally tells me nothing about them other then they might wanna be called something different, which im fine with cause i dont go out of my way to disrespect people.

Heres a couple examples of things i feel like i shouldnt do in society because ill probably have to deal with ****:
-not acknowledge the pledge of allegiance
-be openly athiest
-not respecting the military

**Frownland** · 08-13-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Nah. I said special title not special treatment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Thanks Frown, ive always wanted special treatment.

.

Quote:

anyone who isnt cis gender is probably being targeted because theyre “weird” and mostly make no sense not because they arent cis

What are you basing that on?

Quote:

I'm not justifying this behavior towards them but i also dont think they need their own gender in the infinite spectrum.

If it's an infinite spectrum, what's the harm in pinpointing spots on that spectrum?

I'm with Marie and grindy that gender identity tends to enforce gender roles more than thwart them and that people should just be themselves instead of basing their behaviour/identity on their sex.

DwnWthVwls · 08-13-2019, 10:19 AM

i agree with marie and grindy too. So whats the problem?

And pinpointing? There isnt some actual spectrum everyone agrees on or actual method to gender characterization. It doesnt pinpoint **** its mostly arbitrary with some minor guidelines.

And im basing it on my experience in the real world and my short time in the kink community where nonbinary genders were abundant.

**Frownland** · 08-13-2019, 10:21 AM

I was mainly responding to your claim that nonbinary people aren't marginalized.

DwnWthVwls · 08-13-2019, 10:31 AM

Yeah and again. They arent any more marginalized then other people that have quirks which deem them weird by societal standards. It seems like a gross false equivalency the compare to treatment of lgbtq and blacks to that of those claiming to be nonbinary.

08-13-2019, 10:21 AM	#3069 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I was mainly responding to your claim that nonbinary people aren't marginalized. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x