Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 08-09-2019, 08:01 AM

@Lucem I've heard him talk specifically about incels and he's said the opposite. That it's a man's own fault if women don't find them attractive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Not entitled to rape but it was a lame attempt to justify sexual harassment, catcalling, etc

What is it that you think he means?

I don't think he was defending any of that. He was basically trying to inject some nuance into the discussion over what is acceptable forms of sexuality in the workplace. You can accuse him of being a prude, but not of advocating any sort of harassment.

~~jwb~~ · 08-09-2019, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Can you dig up the link?

I'm at work... Maybe later. I think it was a Vox interview

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

My problem with Peterson is that cultural Marxism doesn't really mean anything. It's a weird umbrella term he throws everything and the kitchen sink under when what he's really railing against is intersectionality.

Zizek called him out on that in their debate. It was the only strong moment Zizek had in the debate. Other than that he completely failed to defend Communism.

DwnWthVwls · 08-09-2019, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

@Lucem I've heard him talk specifically about incels and he's said the opposite. That it's a man's own fault if women don't find them attractive.

I don't think he was defending any of that. He was basically trying to inject some nuance into the discussion over what is acceptable forms of sexuality in the workplace. You can accuse him of being a prude, but not of advocating any sort of harassment.

Possibly. Its been a while maybe im missremembering. I dont see how you can take a paoition against makeup though if that was his point. I didnt say he was advocating harassment i said he was justifying it (with his hyper prude position) and that incels could very easily use his speech to advocate for harassment.

Mindy · 08-09-2019, 08:27 AM

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/79...SwqVa1DsGPTILw

Andrew Yang's favorite jams, spotify playlist

interesting and intelligent way to get into the minds of voters

**Frownland** · 08-09-2019, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I've never heard him say anything pro incel or along the lines of men being owed women's attention or bodies

Enforced monogamy (even if he thinks it should be enforced by culture and not the gubmnet) as a way to control women's reproductive rights ("to protect the babies, you see") definitely reeks of male entitlement to women's bodies.

But let's say that none of these examples check the box, why do you think he attracts so many incels?

~~jwb~~ · 08-09-2019, 02:25 PM

Enforced monogamy just means monogamy as the cultural norm vs polygamy. You could easily argue women tended to have less rights in most polygamous societies.

I haven't seen any stats on him with incels. I know the self help angle largely appeals to young men who are struggling in one shape or fashion. tbh I've not read his book or anything and was mostly into the biblical lectures.

**Frownland** · 08-09-2019, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Enforced monogamy just means monogamy as the cultural norm vs polygamy. You could easily argue women tended to have less rights in most polygamous societies.

I'm aware. One of his two key justifications for enforced monogamy is controlling women's reproduction, which is the incelly angle that I was pointing out.

Quote:

I haven't seen any stats on him with incels. I know the self help angle largely appeals to young men who are struggling in one shape or fashion. tbh I've not read his book or anything and was mostly into the biblical lectures.

So just the self help angle?

I see him in the same light as the dude who wrote The Bell Curve. They take some form of evidence to draw hasty conclusions to support what they already believe. Then they hide behind the fact that they never directly saying anything racist/sexist/etc., they're just telling everyone the FAXTS and that anyone criticizing their interpretation are criticizing the facts themselves.

But ja he's a solid biblical historian I'll give him that. Definitely the most interesting material he's put out.

~~jwb~~ · 08-09-2019, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I'm aware. One of his two key justifications for enforced monogamy is controlling women's reproduction, which is the incelly angle that I was pointing out.

Unless you quote what you're talking about I don't have anything to say other than I don't recall this. I remember him talking about enforced monogamy as opposed to polygamy in terms of pragmatic affect, but not him saying women shouldn't be able to choose the lifestyle they want to engage in. I think he just believes one of those is a better basis for our society.

Quote:

So just the self help angle?

I see him in the same light as the dude who wrote The Bell Curve. They take some form of evidence to draw hasty conclusions to support what they already believe. Then they hide behind the fact that they never directly saying anything racist/sexist/etc., they're just telling everyone the FAXTS and that anyone criticizing their interpretation are criticizing the facts themselves.

But ja he's a solid biblical historian I'll give him that. Definitely the most interesting material he's put out.

Haven't read the Bell Curve so I have no opinion on that either. But yes I think it's basically the self help/call to personal responsibility that makes him appeal more to young men. Incels would have to specifically ignore what he says about their own responsibility in driving women away in order to think he was advocating they are just victims of society, which is what they actually believe.

**Frownland** · 08-09-2019, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Unless you quote what you're talking about I don't have anything to say other than I don't recall this. I remember him talking about enforced monogamy as opposed to polygamy in terms of pragmatic affect, but not him saying women shouldn't be able to choose the lifestyle they want to engage in. I think he just believes one of those is a better basis for our society.

I already did but here's the whole thing.

Quote:

It’s been a truism among anthropologists and biologically-oriented psychologists for decades that all human societies face two primary tasks: regulation of female reproduction (so the babies don’t die, you see) and male aggression (so that everyone doesn’t die). The social enforcement of monogamy happens to be an effective means of addressing both issues

OccultHawk · 08-09-2019, 03:09 PM

Have you read the Bell Curve Frown?

08-09-2019, 08:27 AM	#2894 (permalink)
Mindy ask me about cosmology Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 9,045	https://open.spotify.com/playlist/79...SwqVa1DsGPTILw Andrew Yang's favorite jams, spotify playlist interesting and intelligent way to get into the minds of voters __________________ https://www.instagram.com/shhons_meme_agency

08-09-2019, 03:09 PM	#2900 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Have you read the Bell Curve Frown? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

08-09-2019, 02:25 PM	#2896 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Enforced monogamy just means monogamy as the cultural norm vs polygamy. You could easily argue women tended to have less rights in most polygamous societies. I haven't seen any stats on him with incels. I know the self help angle largely appeals to young men who are struggling in one shape or fashion. tbh I've not read his book or anything and was mostly into the biblical lectures.