Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 08:56 AM

I actually didn't bring it up, Batty. I responded to something elph said about gender cause the race argument was pretty much done.

And I don't say trans people aren't real.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2019, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I'm not following you tbh

We were hunter gatherers for the vast majority of our time on this planet. Supposedly ~10,000 years ago we broke from that. Which is the blink of an eye in evolutionary time. That's precisely why the basic structure of hunter gatherer societies tells us so much about our behavior today.

So you're saying that traditional gender roles were constructed by societal norms? A social construct, if you will?

Lucem Ferre · 08-12-2019, 10:45 AM

I thought the whole village helped the mother raise children in Hunter gatherer tribes rather than the modern two parent model.

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

So you're saying that gender roles were constructed by societal norms? A social construct, if you will?

Yeah I guess it's basically a social construct but unlike race it serves a basic purpose and arose based on pragmatic biological constraints.

The idea of gender is basically just an aggregate of personality traits associated with the two sexes. Sex isn't a social construct and the reason those traits have become associated with a given sex is largely explained by the divergent strategies females and males employ to attract a mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I thought the whole village helped the mother raise children in Hunter gatherer tribes rather than the modern two parent model.

generally speaking the women would take on that part of the work where men were more likely to hunt or do other dangerous work like that

The nuclear family is a modern adaptation of the same basic division of labor.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2019, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Yeah I guess it's basically a social construct but unlike race it serves a basic purpose and arose based on pragmatic biological constraints.

Wouldn't they would shift over thousands of years as society changes toward something more egalitarian and technologically advanced?

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 11:35 AM

I mean they're obviously adaptable when you get into specifics.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the perception that women are more nurturing or men are more adventurous. These are traits that clearly were selected for and they reflect a lot of modern gender realities as well. So I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

So I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon.

This is what the apes said to each other before this supposed hunter gatherer social influence entered the picture.

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 12:16 PM

Millions of years ago? Sure

The thing is that like I said we aren't playing by the same rules in civilized society but for that to be reflected in our actual evolution, that would have to be true for much longer than just 10,000 years.

But I think in many ways natural selection has been overridden by technology in the case of humans.

**Frownland** · 08-12-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Millions of years ago? Sure

The thing is that like I said we aren't playing by the same rules in civilized society but for that to be reflected in our actual evolution, that would have to be true for much longer than just 10,000 years.

But I think in many ways natural selection has been overridden by technology in the case of humans.

If modern behaviour thwarts traditional gender roles, how would that be different from the behaviour in the past that supported those roles in terms of being a part of our "actual evolution"?

~~jwb~~ · 08-12-2019, 12:45 PM

I gotta be honest the whole 70+ genders thing seems like a bit much to me.

I think we should limit it to 5 genders. You got your m, f, mtf, ftm, and then you got what I call your "wildcards."

08-12-2019, 08:56 AM	#2721 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I actually didn't bring it up, Batty. I responded to something elph said about gender cause the race argument was pretty much done. And I don't say trans people aren't real.

08-12-2019, 11:35 AM	#2726 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I mean they're obviously adaptable when you get into specifics. I'm thinking more along the lines of the perception that women are more nurturing or men are more adventurous. These are traits that clearly were selected for and they reflect a lot of modern gender realities as well. So I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon.

08-12-2019, 12:16 PM	#2728 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Millions of years ago? Sure The thing is that like I said we aren't playing by the same rules in civilized society but for that to be reflected in our actual evolution, that would have to be true for much longer than just 10,000 years. But I think in many ways natural selection has been overridden by technology in the case of humans.

08-12-2019, 12:45 PM	#2730 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I gotta be honest the whole 70+ genders thing seems like a bit much to me. I think we should limit it to 5 genders. You got your m, f, mtf, ftm, and then you got what I call your "wildcards."