Political Discussions for "Adults"

Mindy · 08-02-2019, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psy-Fi

Better start stocking up on your medication of choice.

She'd look good riding shotgun with Corvette Joe.

"Hammer Down, Baby!"

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:12 PM

Is there any proof that communism would have prevented scientific innovation?

Or are we just going to clutch to that tired ass talking point to justify the status quo?

Since when did I need to know technological advancements to know that the people that benefit and rule in a money based economy are not going to just give that up when money should be obsolete? It's ****ing naive. Unrealistically optimistic.

Anteater · 08-02-2019, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Is there any proof that communism would have prevented scientific innovation?

Sure. Even taking advantage and poaching 20th century technological innovations from capitalist societies somehow millions of people still starved in China and elsewhere. Your going to tell me a bunch of random communes would have somehow caused history to follow the same technological trajectory as what we've seen in the past few centuries? Hilarious.

There's nothing naive about what I'm talking about. It's as inevitable as the death of our solar system's sun.

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Sure. Even taking advantage of 20th century technological innovations from capitalist societies somehow millions of people still starved to death in China and elsewhere.

Communism can never compete in the global market, but lets say that the whole globe worked in a communist rather than capitalist way. Do you think it would have prevented innovation?

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

There's nothing naive about what I'm talking about. It's as inevitable as the death of our solar system's sun.

Money becoming obsolete? Maybe.

But you're naive if you think it's just going to happen when automation takes over the work force. You're conveniently leaving out the huge fight back we're going to get from the people that are in power because of money.

Anteater · 08-02-2019, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Communism can never compete in the global market, but lets say that the whole globe worked in a communist rather than capitalist way. Do you think it would have prevented innovation?

Communism in the way you guys talk about it wouldn't have ever happened at scale even if someone besides Marx and his peers had thought of it earlier. Because human beings inevitably arrange themselves into hierarchical structures (with some variation of the "haves" sitting in some kind of organization at the top) so they don't have to deal with the responsibilities of governance beyond the local level.

If there's one thing I can say is a constant since the dawn of our species, it is that human beings are fundamentally lazy. That's why there's such a huge appeal to automation even for regular people. Who wouldn't want to get up every day and just paint or do what they want while robots and AI and self-driving vehicles do everything and where the cost of food is close to zero because everything is cloned or produced in petri dishes by even more robots.

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:31 PM

If we didn't have a global capitalist system that depended on freaking fiends fracking for ****ing fossil fuels as a main source of income we'd probably have safer alternatives by now because our interest wouldn't be in money and power, it'd be in saving the planet.

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

No. Because human beings inevitably arrange themselves into hierarchical structures (with some variation of the "haves" sitting in some kind of organization at the top) so they don't have to deal with the responsibilities of governance beyond the local level.

If there's one thing I can say is a constant since the dawn of our species, it is that human beings are fundamentally lazy. That's why there's such a huge appeal to automation even for regular people. Who wouldn't want to get up every day and just paint or do what they want while robots and AI and self-driving vehicles do everything and where the cost of food is close to zero because everything is cloned or produced in petri dishes by even more robots.

Then why did cavemen invent the wheel?

Lucem Ferre · 08-02-2019, 11:37 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

based on what?

I'd say the opposite, humans are fundamentally creative

We're fundamentally lazier than the capitalist standard because modern society has us working at unnatural levels but compared to other animals we're one of the hardest working species on the planet.

I think he underestimates how much innovation has come from just being bored.

Anteater · 08-02-2019, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Then why did cavemen invent the wheel?

Cavemen didn't invent the wheel. Unless you consider Mesopotamia circa 3500 B.C. a cave society or something.