Political Discussions for "Adults"

The Batlord · 07-31-2019, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

this has already basically been addressed.

Unions work to the extent they mobilize collective bargaining. Which makes cheap labor harder to get. So does minimum wage. All this is perfectly in line with what I've said this far.

wut

Minimum wage doesn't make cheap labor harder to get. Under a certain level it eliminates it. You're also ignoring the point. Unions through threat of strikes, or even violence, and companies through lobbying alter value based on non-market factors via power. If a corporation is increasing the value of whatever they're selling by having laws enacted or struck down that artificially inflate value then value is meaningless. All you're talking about is power. And power is not actually a synonym for money.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the employee is entitled to the Value Added

But he doesn’t get it so that can’t be true derp derp

Because the way it is is the only way it can be

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

wut

Minimum wage doesn't make cheap labor harder to get. Under a certain level it eliminates it. You're also ignoring the point. Unions through threat of strikes, or even violence, and companies through lobbying alter value based on non-market factors via power. If a corporation is increasing the value of whatever they're selling by having laws enacted or struck down that artificially inflate value then value is meaningless. All you're talking about is power. And power is not actually a synonym for money.

I'm not ignoring anything

Unions and minimum wage affect wages by calling y it harder or impossible to find cheaper labor

That's perfectly in line with what I'm saying. You are worth whatever the labor pool you are competing with is willing to work for. How essential the labor you provide is means less than how hard it is to find someone to do the same job.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the employee is entitled to the Value Added

"value of the employee" is, idk, it doesn't mean anything

value of employees labor, is the Value Added

they're entitled to nothing

You get what you are worth paying for by an employer

Which is based on what your competition will work for

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

But he doesn’t get it so that can’t be true derp derp

Because the way it is is the only way it can be

No.. Not really

But you guys are using the system we have to derive your labor theory of value

The problem is you aren't properly considering the value of the business. Which is worth a hell of a lot more than the simple overhead.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you're right that is what you get

the argument is that you're being exploited

are you this unimaginative? no offense

I'm willing to imagine people getting more

I'm not convinced by just saying you're entitled to it even when businesses don't need you if they are forced to pay more

Just sounds like baseless wishful thinking. Once again, you're entitled to nothing.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

really it's not that complicated

and no, I get that you don't understand it, but Labor Theory of Value exists Capitalism or no Capitalism

Heh maybe the theory exists but the value of your labor changes based on what the company you are working for can make from it... Which is dependent on the economic system

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:09 PM

You guys keep throwing digs my way but I answer every single one of your points without backup and you don't return the favor

I'm not stupid I'm just not another brainwashed Marxist

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:23 PM

You're entitled to what you agree to work for. Unionizing might help that rate. I've yet to say anything against unions.

The business owner only has domain cause they are the ones putting up all the capital, taking all the risk, etc. They're entitled to what the business makes minus overhead the same way they're responsible for any losses or debts they accrue.

The Batlord · 07-31-2019, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You're entitled to what you agree to work for.

Why? Why should I be entitled to get anything for any reason? Why aren't the capitalists entitled to enslave us? Why am I not entitled to more than what I'm getting now?

07-31-2019, 04:09 PM	#2498 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	You guys keep throwing digs my way but I answer every single one of your points without backup and you don't return the favor I'm not stupid I'm just not another brainwashed Marxist

07-31-2019, 04:23 PM	#2499 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	You're entitled to what you agree to work for. Unionizing might help that rate. I've yet to say anything against unions. The business owner only has domain cause they are the ones putting up all the capital, taking all the risk, etc. They're entitled to what the business makes minus overhead the same way they're responsible for any losses or debts they accrue.