Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the value of labor does not make sense evaluated as a commodity

because of the value add proponent

weak response I respond to your points specifically and you fall back on mindless Marxist tropes.

**Frownland** · 07-31-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

what’s the point elph

He’s talking about simple market value supply and demand. As usual he’s just regurgitating the most elementary observations that are the intellectual equivalent as saying the sky is blue

You’re talking about closing the gap between the value added and the wage as a matter of justice and dignity for your fellow human being and his response will be some variation of your worth what the market will pay. The disturbing thing is he seems to think the market value has some kind of validity but honestly from how he explains things I think he might have some kind of cognitive difficulty with abstract thought. I mean he’ll say the shortest distance between two points is a straight line as if that’s something profound and new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

So you want to take this to the personal level again...

The Batlord · 07-31-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

It's less valuable specifically because of the labor pool they are competing with. That's like asking is a Cuban cigar more valuable in America vs Cuba. It's more valuable because of the scarcity of the product here, despite being the same exact product in either location.

Yeah see I think you're missing that value does not exist an economic bubble. Value is at least partially a power transaction. Unions lobby for minimum wage and the value of labor goes up, not for any market reason, but because power has been "paid" by the unions to make it so. Minimum wage employees aren't paid low wages simply because of the value of their labor, they're paid low wages because of the power imbalance between employer and employee (e.g. corporate lobbying for the benefit of the company, lack of unions, etc). Countries with sweatshop labor don't have less valuable labor, the workers lack even more power than we do.

Attributing value simply to supply and demand implies some sort of mathematical legitimacy. It's that way because that's how the system simply functions. That's not how the system functions though. Power transactions from both workers and employers act as leverage to alter how the system functions.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

what’s the point elph

He’s talking about simple market value supply and demand. As usual he’s just regurgitating the most elementary observations that are the intellectual equivalent as saying the sky is blue

You’re talking about closing the gap between the value added and the wage as a matter of justice and dignity for your fellow human being and his response will be some variation of your worth what the market will pay. The disturbing thing is he seems to think the market value has some kind of validity but honestly from how he explains things I think he might have some kind of cognitive difficulty with abstract thought. I mean he’ll say the shortest distance between two points is a straight line as if that’s something profound and new.

yeah I'm just stupid

That's why you can't form a coherent argument against anything I say

Maybe it's cause you don't worry about how you contradict yourself like you admitted earlier, hence you are undisciplined

Or maybe you're just wrong

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I've only been repeating myself regardless of how wordy I can make it

it's not a Marxist trope, Adam Smith was a proponent of Labor Theory of Value

you could try responding in your own words

Pretty sure I answered the points you just raised and you copped out

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

Yeah see I think you're missing that value does not exist an economic bubble. Value is at least partially a power transaction. Unions lobby for minimum wage and the value of labor goes up, not for any market reason, but because power has been "paid" by the unions to make it so. Minimum wage employees aren't paid low wages simply because of the value of their labor, they're paid low wages because of the power imbalance between employer and employee (e.g. corporate lobbying for the benefit of the company, lack of unions, etc). Countries with sweatshop labor don't have less valuable labor, the workers lack even more power than we do.

Attributing value simply to supply and demand implies some sort of mathematical legitimacy. It's that way because that's how the system simply functions. That's not how the system functions though. Power transactions from both workers and employers act as leverage to alter how the system functions.

this has already basically been addressed.

Unions work to the extent they mobilize collective bargaining. Which makes cheap labor harder to get. So does minimum wage. All this is perfectly in line with what I've said this far.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

in fact

private property

classical liberalism

John Locke....Rousseau all those mates

proponents of Labor Theory of Value

Marx just asks the same question they did of Kings, in a different time

how about the specific answers I gave to your specific questions

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:32 PM

So based on this, let's say I come up with a robot that provides that labor. It costs 25 cents to make the robot. My competitor is willing the sell the company the same robot for 50 cents. Is it still worth a dollar?

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:38 PM

Is the robot worth a dollar when my competitor will sell you the same robot for 50 cents

In both cases the value added is the same

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 04:42 PM

But not necessarily the value of the employee?

07-31-2019, 04:32 PM	#2488 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	So based on this, let's say I come up with a robot that provides that labor. It costs 25 cents to make the robot. My competitor is willing the sell the company the same robot for 50 cents. Is it still worth a dollar?

07-31-2019, 04:38 PM	#2489 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Is the robot worth a dollar when my competitor will sell you the same robot for 50 cents In both cases the value added is the same

07-31-2019, 04:42 PM	#2490 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	But not necessarily the value of the employee?