Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

let's imagine all workers are unionized such that there will not be someone to replace them

and lets assume it is a job that can not yet be automated

does not the profits shared by the workers increase?

yes. Like I said unions work and minimum wage works to a certain extent. But you are imagining something that isn't our reality and isn't very likely to be. I'm talking about the world we actually live in.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No, they just like to make you think they're less replaceable. They get replaced all the time.

they get replaced by other people who the company finds qualified to do their job

Which still makes them harder to replace than you

If you honestly believe the company would rather pay you more instead of replacing you then you should demand a raise. Not being facetious. It does work when they actually think it's worth it to keep you.

Lucem Ferre · 07-31-2019, 01:05 PM

If you're saying the ability to exploit, cheat and inhere is a valuable talent in a capitalist society I can agree but we're talking about what should be not what currently is.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

like bottom line, don't confuse the practical workings of Capitalism, with what both parties are theoretically worth in the equation

the equation is based on the practical workings of capitalism. Which you keep ignoring

I'm perfectly familiar with what Marxists believe. I think they're wrong in some very pragmatic ways.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 01:08 PM

Wilkes

If someone in Minnesota complains about the cold do you spend 30 minutes pointing out their proximity to the arctic circle?

WE KNOW HOW IT IS.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

If you're saying the ability to exploit, cheat and inhere is a valuable talent in a capitalist society I can agree but we're talking about what should be not what currently is.

... Please try a bit harder than this

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Wilkes

If someone in Minnesota complains about the cold do you spend 30 minutes pointing out their proximity to the arctic circle?

WE KNOW HOW IT IS.

No you Don't

Lucem Ferre · 07-31-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

they get replaced by other people who the company finds qualified to do their job

Which still makes them harder to replace than you

If you honestly believe the company would rather pay you more instead of replacing you then you should demand a raise. Not being facetious. It does work when they actually think it's worth it to keep you.

If my bosses could have paid me much more they would have. That's for every job I've had. It's always somebody else that doesn't know **** about the company that says no. You think I have a direct connection to the people in charge of finance? **** no. The people that own the place don't give a ****. We went through several different owners. One person literally owned the place just for the novelty of owning a brewery. (Cool guy, actually.) None of them added anything to the success of the brewery. But hey, they totally deserve much more money than me for being already rich enough to buy a brewery, ay?

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

You might know I used to teach history. So when I started that job I took an interest in how the restaurant came to be. I started asking all the managers and chefs and workers about the history of the restaurant then I went on a mad google spree and pieced it together.

The original brothers who opened the retardant were connected to group of pro-segregationist white male Southern Baptist politicians called the Pork Chop Gang

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_Chop_Gang

In exchange for political favors the “entrepreneurs” who handed this establishment down to its current owners were given a sweetheart deal monopolizing a huge swath of waterfront property and a marina. They were given the location and the access to the sea (and the fish in it) simply for being connected white males. So the entrepreneurial advantage awarded to them by a Jim Crow corrupt government was a perfect location and control of a huge fishing dock, and they didn’t even have to compete. It was ****ing gift wrapped.

So truthfully, given those advantages, I think I’d be making millions of dollars a year just like they are. And considering how the human brain works I’d probably think I earned every cent. Even more than $500 a day if you can believe it.

Uh. elph, lucem, anyone? Can I get some credit for demolishing the how much could I make selling fish on my own argument with this true account. Thank you.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I wouldn't know how else to explain it to ya

a worker can say my labor is worth more than what I am being paid

and they would almost certainly be right

because the system doesn't even work unless value is extracted from the worker and given to the capitalist

now a capitalist can make an argument like "this is still the best way to do things for everyone", but an argument on the basis that the workers are only worth what they're being paid is false on face value

You're just repeating the same old Marxist tropes at this point.

The system doesn't work with out workers. It also doesn't work without a viable business, consumers, and any number of other things that you're not mentioning.

The leverage that each of these parties has in the current system is based on how replaceable they are, individually.

You keep saying its not markets yet the labor theory of value only makes any sense in a market context. Without a viable business and a steady stream of customers the ability to cut fish, flip burgers, etc is basically worth nothing. So my point is you are ignoring the basic utility that the business is bringing to the table, with regard to using that labor to create something of value.

07-31-2019, 01:08 PM	#2455 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Wilkes If someone in Minnesota complains about the cold do you spend 30 minutes pointing out their proximity to the arctic circle? WE KNOW HOW IT IS. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html