Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

I don't disagree with minimum wage.

But once again that only gets you so far
The business will take the Lions share of the profits because they contribute more to those profits than you do merely by the infrastructure they provide.

It's easy to think the profit the local McDonald's takes in comes down to their fry cooks and cashier's when it really has more to do with their business model, advertising campaigns, location, etc.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

simply put, there is no value generated if there is no labor, there is no surplus

again, ain't no fish getting served if nobody cuts them

what you're describing by saying workers are replaceable is a result of a power imbalance

it has no bearing on the value of the work itself, which is inherently valuable proportional to the surplus

You're just ignoring my point. There will always be someone there to cut them. The second there isn't, they will automate.

The workers are less powerful precisely because they're more replaceable, not vice versa.

And the value of their work is once again based on the market and what people will pay for the product they produce.

Lucem Ferre · 07-31-2019, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You're just ignoring my point. There will always be someone there to cut them. The second there isn't, they will automate.

The workers are less powerful precisely because they're more replaceable, not vice versa.

And the value of their work is once again based on the market and what people will pay for the product they produce.

No, they just like to make you think they're less replaceable. They get replaced all the time.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No, they just like to make you think they're less replaceable. They get replaced all the time.

they get replaced by other people who the company finds qualified to do their job

Which still makes them harder to replace than you

If you honestly believe the company would rather pay you more instead of replacing you then you should demand a raise. Not being facetious. It does work when they actually think it's worth it to keep you.

Lucem Ferre · 07-31-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

they get replaced by other people who the company finds qualified to do their job

Which still makes them harder to replace than you

If you honestly believe the company would rather pay you more instead of replacing you then you should demand a raise. Not being facetious. It does work when they actually think it's worth it to keep you.

If my bosses could have paid me much more they would have. That's for every job I've had. It's always somebody else that doesn't know **** about the company that says no. You think I have a direct connection to the people in charge of finance? **** no. The people that own the place don't give a ****. We went through several different owners. One person literally owned the place just for the novelty of owning a brewery. (Cool guy, actually.) None of them added anything to the success of the brewery. But hey, they totally deserve much more money than me for being already rich enough to buy a brewery, ay?

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

let's imagine all workers are unionized such that there will not be someone to replace them

and lets assume it is a job that can not yet be automated

does not the profits shared by the workers increase?

yes. Like I said unions work and minimum wage works to a certain extent. But you are imagining something that isn't our reality and isn't very likely to be. I'm talking about the world we actually live in.

OccultHawk · 07-31-2019, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/07/18/us/....google.com%2F

Nearly 100 bodies found at a Texas construction site were probably black people forced into labor -- after slavery ended

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:36 PM

It takes more than just laborers. You need a viable business to make that possible. If you can pull that off, then fantastic. Lemme know when you're hiring.

~~jwb~~ · 07-31-2019, 12:43 PM

My dad actually was a laborer who ran his own business doing pool decks and **** and made good money doing it. I'm not saying it's never possible but the more unskilled/replaceable the labor, the less viable it becomes.

He also spent his life ducking the IRS and any other business related laws.

Lucem Ferre · 07-31-2019, 12:52 PM

In any job I've had I've seen management, marketing and all the other **** shift around just as much as laborers.

Like ****, every year they produce Punkn at Uinta and every year we ended up dumping every keg because nobody buys it. Doesn't take a genius to know that we probably shouldn't keep making a ****ty beer that doesn't sell yet some how you think that person is worth more than the laborers that also know. These people are not as competent as you think.

07-31-2019, 12:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	It takes more than just laborers. You need a viable business to make that possible. If you can pull that off, then fantastic. Lemme know when you're hiring.

07-31-2019, 12:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	My dad actually was a laborer who ran his own business doing pool decks and **** and made good money doing it. I'm not saying it's never possible but the more unskilled/replaceable the labor, the less viable it becomes. He also spent his life ducking the IRS and any other business related laws.