Political Discussions for "Adults"

Oriphiel · 05-29-2019, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

What you are talking about is basically the Nordic model of social democracy that you see in countries like Denmark. Capitalism and the free market are still present, just a lot more regulated in key areas so that you don't get corporatism.

Not a perfect system (and the taxes can be egregious to the middle class under certain circumstances), but still most likely the "best" system in regards to maximizing happiness, wealth and stability for all citizens at all income levels. Yang and Sanders want to move the U.S. in that direction....though IMO Yang has a better grasp on the processes that would need to be implemented to actually bring those changes about.

Oh ****, we're agreeing on something. *penis highfive*

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Cant even get 40 morons to not stand in the fire in a mmorpg and you want the middle class to put pressure on the rich? I'm just going to keep following the ideologies I agree with on an individual level aka veganism, voting with my dollar, etc, and hope I inspire a couple people along the way cause I dont have enough faith in humanity to view your wall of text as a viable mechanism for change.

I mean, the serfs in France were pretty busy working nonstop just to have enough to stay alive, yet they managed to find the time to get all head choppy.

We're living in an age when people have a higher average intelligence than ever before, as well as more free time than people in the lower castes have traditionally been granted (except for game developers being forced to work 100+ hour work weeks for fear of being blacklisted lol). I think we've got a pretty good chance of accomplishing great things, and without having to take any heads off. Even if all we do is put some sort of cap on wealth, even one that barely makes a difference, it'll still be a great legacy to pass on to future generations, something that can really be built off of. If our generation accomplishes just that one thing, our posterity might forgive us for the manbuns.

DwnWthVwls · 05-29-2019, 05:07 PM

^You hear people like Shapiro arguing that those countries can only do that because they rely the US. Idk **** about it, but would their systems be self sustaining in a bubble as they currently are?

Oriphiel · 05-29-2019, 05:13 PM

Only one way to find out. Let's do iiiiiiitttttt

Honestly, more than anything, I think transparency with politicians might get people on board with political change. Like, making it so that politicians can't accept any money from anyone, and have to live on a minimum wage stipend. That way, they have to live under the same conditions that the working class do.

Though how you could enforce that without embedding big brother cameras into their suits, I don't even know.

It would just be really nice if we could cut out all of the people who get into politics as a "career". It shouldn't be a career. It should be public service. If you want to make money, invest on wall street or something.

OccultHawk · 05-29-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:

They would still be billionaires. They just wouldn't be trillionaires, which nobody should be anyway.

There are no trillionaires just yet but I deeply respect the motive behind your post.

I hate to say this because very few people seem capable of visualizing this truth but the truth is there have been horrible disparities ever since the advent of money and private property. We’re always going to be pissing against the wind unless we abolish money and private property altogether. All oppression is a byproduct of those two things.

We’re not just barking up the wrong tree. We’re barking in the wrong forest. The right forest doesn’t even exist. Right now it’s just desert. If you even talk about what actually needs to be done you’ll be written off as a crank.

OccultHawk · 05-29-2019, 05:46 PM

Quote:

our posterity might forgive us

No they won’t. They’re going to say very simply that we understood that we were depleting every natural resource on the planet and creating a Venus like atmosphere but we still couldn’t admit that there were billions too many of us. It’s as purposefully blind as refusing to see 2+2=4.

Oriphiel · 05-29-2019, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

There are no trillionaires just yet but I deeply respect the motive behind your post.

I hate to say this because very few people seem capable of visualizing this truth but the truth is there have been horrible disparities ever since the advent of money and private property. We’re always going to be pissing against the wind unless we abolish money and private property altogether. All oppression is a byproduct of those two things.

We’re not just barking up the wrong tree. We’re barking in the wrong forest. The right forest doesn’t even exist. Right now it’s just desert. If you even talk about what actually needs to be done you’ll be written off as a crank.

I disagree. As gross as capitalism can be, I think with the right safeguards, it's still the best option for a country that wants to stay relevant, in terms of science, education, quality of life, medical care, etc. People can have private property while still being protected from extreme corruption and exploitation.

And we can also turn the focus back on renewable energy sources, and finding food and room for everyone. There are billions of us, right? At least some of those billions have to have some ideas. Especially since the average level of intelligence has risen over the years. We're a big, crazy family. We can work this **** out.

It just takes people giving a **** and standing up for themselves, rather than being penned into one of two goofy ass camps. I really do believe that with the proper motivation and inspiration, the average person is intelligent enough to see the truth and take action. Maybe that's why instead of voting, I usually spend my time writing instead. It's infinitely more important than picking one of two poisons, or even dignifying their broken game with a hint of legitimacy.

Maybe in the future, if we can get rid of all the borders and military forces, a sort of global commune might work. Until then, any country that tries something like that will immediately be invaded by Russia. Because Russia truly does not give a ****.

Anteater · 05-29-2019, 06:00 PM

I don't see socialism by itself ever working because power consolidates whether people want it to or not. Money doesn't even have to exist for such a thing to occur.

OccultHawk · 05-29-2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

the problem can be addressed without reducing the population most likely

Quote:

There are billions of us, right? At least some of those billions have to have some ideas. Especially since the average level of intelligence has risen over the years. We're a big, crazy family. We can work this **** out.

It must be nice being able to know what y’all know and still be able to do the mental gymnastics not to believe it.

DwnWthVwls · 05-29-2019, 06:20 PM

https://sliders.fandom.com/wiki/Luck_of_the_Draw

Oriphiel · 05-29-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

It must be nice being able to know what y’all know and still be able to do the mental gymnastics not to believe it.

Nah. Overpopulation is actually a non-issue. I'll explain later.

Every generation boohoos about overpopulation. Every generation also acts like everything is getting interminably worse. But the truth is that people are getting smarter, living longer, and solving more issues. The internet has connected the masses in a way that nobody could have predicted. Things are getting better, and even a hobgoblin like Trump can't stop it. At most, he's a temporary slump back. We might have to use violence to force him out of office if things get ridiculous, but ultimately he's just the death knell of bipartisan politics. The point where even the staunchest advocates for the system have to admit that the system has failed them. We have a literal clown sitting on the throne. This is what we deserve for becoming complacent, and being tricked into treating politics like sports.

This is the point where people will start to actually challenge both the republicans and the democrats, and the structure of our government in general. Instead of just going along with it like a good little Chula, because true change is hard and messy, it's going to be the American Revolution part two. And, hopefully, a bloodless one.

We'll use the best of capitalism, and the best of socialism. We'll fine tune the system, without resorting to the kind of lazy extremes that edgy college kids think are so clever, like trying to abolish money and private property.

But here. People have already solved the immediate burdens of overpopulation and world hunger for you.

1. Build platform cities over the oceans, starting with recycled oil tankers, but eventually building them from scratch once the process becomes refined. The construction and maintenance of them would stimulate the world economy and provide jobs. And it would make use of the massive amount of space that the oceans take up. And along the surfaces of the buildings, you could set up...

2. Hydroponic farms. We already have them, and they're getting simpler and more affordable every day.

You could also utilize the oodles of free space between the earth and the edge of the atmosphere to build tiered platforms. It might **** up flight plans, and you'd have to improve light refraction technology to make sure that sunlight could still get through, but it'd be a great use of the space.

There. Shazam. As long as we take our time and make sure that the platforms aren't ****ing with the natural environment below, we'll be good. And by the time we run out of space (which will take a long ****ing time, considering that the entire world population right now, which is starting to taper off in most first world countries, can actually fit on a pretty small piece of land if organized efficiently), we'll have the tech to colonize other planets.

But even if you just want to use the natural land, we still have more than enough space for everyone. If we can cut out all of the speculators from the real estate market and reinstate legit rent control, and rethink the way we plan out our housing.

And that's why overpopulation is a non-issue, usually brought up by scared old politicians who, again, want to give people something to be scared about. Anything to distract them from the real problem. A problem that we actually can start to solve.

05-29-2019, 05:13 PM	#1923 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	Only one way to find out. Let's do iiiiiiitttttt Honestly, more than anything, I think transparency with politicians might get people on board with political change. Like, making it so that politicians can't accept any money from anyone, and have to live on a minimum wage stipend. That way, they have to live under the same conditions that the working class do. Though how you could enforce that without embedding big brother cameras into their suits, I don't even know. It would just be really nice if we could cut out all of the people who get into politics as a "career". It shouldn't be a career. It should be public service. If you want to make money, invest on wall street or something. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------