Political Discussions for "Adults"

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMBFFF

It was already happening in the US. Maybe they had a few Ramones records.

London was happening before the Ramones first album came out. So was Cleveland for that matter.

DMBFFF · 02-09-2019, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Morrissey

I hear he was a fan of Patti Smith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

London was happening before the Ramones first album came out. So was Cleveland for that matter.

Time for us experts to check out WP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock

Quote:

New York City

The origins of New York's punk rock scene can be traced back to such sources as late 1960s trash culture and an early 1970s underground rock movement centered on the Mercer Arts Center in Greenwich Village, where the New York Dolls performed.[120] In early 1974, a new scene began to develop around the CBGB club, also in lower Manhattan. At its core was Television, described by critic John Walker as "the ultimate garage band with pretensions".[121] Their influences ranged from the Velvet Underground to the staccato guitar work of Dr. Feelgood's Wilko Johnson.[122] The band's bassist/singer, Richard Hell, created a look with cropped, ragged hair, ripped T-shirts, and black leather jackets credited as the basis for punk rock visual style.[123] In April 1974, Patti Smith, a member of the Mercer Arts Center crowd and a friend of Hell's, came to CBGB for the first time to see the band perform.[124] A veteran of independent theater and performance poetry, Smith was developing an intellectual, feminist take on rock 'n' roll. On June 5, she recorded the single "Hey Joe"/"Piss Factory", featuring Television guitarist Tom Verlaine; released on her own Mer Records label, it heralded the scene's do it yourself (DIY) ethic and has often been cited as the first punk rock record.[125] By August, Smith and Television were gigging together at another downtown New York club, Max's Kansas City.[123]

(my bold)

Quote:

United Kingdom

By 1975 the movement was already well established in London and had been growing for a number of years. Inspired by music from the Velvet Underground, Iggy Pop and early David Bowie, the Flowers of Romance at one point included Sid Vicious, Marco Pirroni and Viv Albertine who later joined the Slits. Following a brief period unofficially managing the New York Dolls, Briton Malcolm McLaren returned to London in May 1975, inspired by the new scene he had witnessed at CBGB. The Kings Road clothing store he co-owned, recently renamed Sex, was building a reputation with its outrageous "anti-fashion".[172] Among those who frequented the shop were members of a band called the Strand, which McLaren had also been managing. In August, the group was seeking a new lead singer. Another Sex habitué, Johnny Rotten, auditioned for and won the job. Adopting a new name, the group played its first gig as the Sex Pistols on November 6, 1975, at Saint Martin's School of Art[173] and soon attracted a small but ardent following.[174] In February 1976, the band received its first significant press coverage; guitarist Steve Jones declared that the Sex Pistols were not so much into music as they were "chaos".[175] The band often provoked its crowds into near-riots. Rotten announced to one audience, "Bet you don't hate us as much as we hate you!"[176] McLaren envisioned the Sex Pistols as central players in a new youth movement, "hard and tough".[177] As described by critic Jon Savage, the band members "embodied an attitude into which McLaren fed a new set of references: late-sixties radical politics, sexual fetish material, pop history, ... youth sociology".[178]

Bernard Rhodes, a sometime associate of McLaren and friend of the Sex Pistols, was similarly aiming to make stars of the band London SS. Early in 1976, London SS broke up before ever performing publicly, spinning off two new bands: the Damned and the Clash, which was joined by Joe Strummer, former lead singer of the 101'ers.[179] On June 4, 1976, the Sex Pistols played Manchester's Lesser Free Trade Hall in what came to be regarded as one of the most influential rock shows ever. Among the approximately forty audience members were the two locals who organised the gig—they had formed Buzzcocks after seeing the Sex Pistols in February. Others in the small crowd went on to form Joy Division, the Fall, and—in the 1980s—the Smiths.[180]

DMBFFF · 02-09-2019, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Moz was also a fan of Patti Smith and wrote a book about New York Dolls

however he explicitly stated that he decided to be a vocalist himself after seeing John Lydon perform with Sex Pistols

punk did originate in the US, but it being a scene focused genre, it's not as if The Damned are necessarily indebted to Dead Boys for instance

I could largely agree with that.

Now, as per Fluff's post on page 143, if this isn't my last post on music, bands, and punk, on this ostensibly-at-least political thread, it might be my 2nd or 3rd last for a while.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMBFFF

I hear he was a fan of Patti Smith.

Time for us experts to check out WP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock

(my bold)

Yeah Television was arguably the first punk band but that **** was starting in pockets all over the place. It must also be said that McLaren wanted the Sex Pistols to LOOK like Television. There wasn't any recorded music from New York to bring over the pond to show people. By the time Ramones was released the London scene was already well under way.

OccultHawk · 02-09-2019, 10:58 AM

The Ramones were the first punk band and the greatest rock band the world will ever know.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 11:04 AM

That's nice. Have a glass of warm milk and take your pills, old man.

**Frownland** · 02-09-2019, 11:06 AM

This is the origin point imo. Nothing proto about it.

DMBFFF · 02-09-2019, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

This is the origin point imo. Nothing proto about it.

Looks like you won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monks

Quote:

The Monks, referred to by the name monks on record sleeves, were an American garage rock band formed in Gelnhausen, West Germany in 1964. Assembled by five American GIs stationed in the country, the group grew tired of the traditional format of rock, which motivated them to forge a highly experimental style characterized by an emphasis on hypnotic rhythms that minimized the role of melody, augmented by the use of sound manipulation techniques. The band's unconventional blend of shrill vocals, feedback, and guitarist David Day's six-string banjo baffled audiences, but music historians have since identified the Monks as a pioneering force in avant-garde music. The band's lyrics often voiced objection to the Vietnam War and the apparently dehumanized state of society, while prefiguring the harsh and blunt commentary of the punk rock movement of the 1970s and 1980s. The band's appearance was considered as shocking as its music, as they attempted to mimic the look of Catholic monks by wearing black habits with cinctures symbolically tied around their necks, and hair worn in partially shaved tonsures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fugs

Quote:

The Fugs are a band formed in New York City in late 1964[1] by the poets Ed Sanders and Tuli Kupferberg, with Ken Weaver on drums. Soon afterward, they were joined by Peter Stampfel and Steve Weber of the Holy Modal Rounders. Kupferberg named the band from a euphemism for **** used in Norman Mailer's novel The Naked and the Dead.

The band lead the underground scene of the 1960s and became an important part of the American counterculture of that decade.[2] The group is known for its comedic, even lewd, nature but also earned fame through their persistent anti-Vietnam War sentiment during the 1960s.[3] Some 1969 correspondence found inside an FBI file on the rock group The Doors called The Fugs the "most vulgar thing the human mind could possibly conceive".[4]

Quote:

Who can kill a general in his bed?
Overthrow dictators if they're red?
****ing-a man!
CIA Man!

"The Watts Riot song"

Quote:

Take your TV tube and eat it
'N all that phony stuff on sports
'N all THOSE unconfirmed reports

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Hey you know something people
I'm not black
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 11:48 AM

Eh, punk was a collection of disparate scenes given a name. Many of the bands didn't even sound alike. Punk started at CBGB's and with the Sex Pistols. Saying other bands sounded like those bands or had similar attitudes or whatever is kind of beside the point. From the Fugs to the Monks to VU and the Stooges they were just all alternative rock before it had a name. Punk was alternative rock before it had a name and if it hadn't blown up and fossilized a sound that was just one (or several) links in the alternative rock chain of evolution then figuring out who was the first punk band would interest nobody.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 11:55 AM

Although to be perfectly ****ing honest I have zero justification for not calling this stone cold punk when it absolutely destroys almost all of punk (Ramones included).

02-09-2019, 10:58 AM	#1265 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	The Ramones were the first punk band and the greatest rock band the world will ever know. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

02-09-2019, 11:06 AM	#1267 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	This is the origin point imo. Nothing proto about it. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x