Political Discussions for "Adults"

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 10:48 AM

Eh, punk was a collection of disparate scenes given a name. Many of the bands didn't even sound alike. Punk started at CBGB's and with the Sex Pistols. Saying other bands sounded like those bands or had similar attitudes or whatever is kind of beside the point. From the Fugs to the Monks to VU and the Stooges they were just all alternative rock before it had a name. Punk was alternative rock before it had a name and if it hadn't blown up and fossilized a sound that was just one (or several) links in the alternative rock chain of evolution then figuring out who was the first punk band would interest nobody.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 10:55 AM

Although to be perfectly ****ing honest I have zero justification for not calling this stone cold punk when it absolutely destroys almost all of punk (Ramones included).

**Frownland** · 02-09-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

Eh, punk was a collection of disparate scenes given a name.

I agree. I think the sound and attitude existed on a very small scale between groups of friends in the form of outsider art long before the 70s.

Quote:

Many of the bands didn't even sound alike. Punk started at CBGB's and with the Sex Pistols. Saying other bands sounded like those bands or had similar attitudes or whatever is kind of beside the point. From the Fugs to the Monks to VU and the Stooges they were just all alternative rock before it had a name. Punk was alternative rock before it had a name and if it hadn't blown up and fossilized a sound that was just one (or several) links in the alternative rock chain of evolution then figuring out who was the first punk band would interest nobody.

That's cultural appropriation.

Anteater · 02-09-2019, 11:24 AM

Nah, it all really started with Cromagnon.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

don't think this thing is unique to punk even

first hip hop artist or first metal band or whatever

it all becomes dumb

Absolutely, but punk in a way is even more storied than hip hop or metal. It's the start of so much that is important and influential, is counter culture rebellion personified (or stereotyped) in music, and it hit kind of all at once and took the world's imagination by storm in a way that hip hop and metal never did in such a sledge hammer/face kind of way that mythologizing about who was the first punk band or where punk started is even more of a rock fetish than figuring out if Black Sabbath really were the first metal band.

And the reason this is is, again, because it happened so abruptly in popular consciousness, and it did so because the London scene blew up so much so quickly, largely because of the Sex Pistols, and yeah a big part of that was because of a fashion aesthetic adopted from early Television.

Quote:

I just think it's a matter of historical fact that punk as a cultural phenomenon originated in the US of A whether that starts with VU or Suicide or TV

New York was a bit ahead of the curb musically, and again early Television birthed the punk fashion aesthetic, but without the Sex Pistols and the sheer proliferation of London bands I doubt nearly as many people would have been forced to look at the point of a gun. However punk started musically the phenomenon was absolutely of British origin.

rostasi · 02-09-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

However punk started musically the phenomenon was absolutely of British origin.

This.

OccultHawk · 02-09-2019, 12:00 PM

The Ramones were from Queens

They invented punk rock

They’re the greatest band ever

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

The Ramones were from Queens

They invented punk rock

They’re the greatest band ever

From me to you.

OccultHawk · 02-09-2019, 12:18 PM

I can play the dig one foot deeper game forever too

But I won’t because I know the Ramones so I don’t have to

The truth it turns out is simple and we knew it all along

DMBFFF · 02-09-2019, 12:31 PM

The terms and the debates are useful, but the usefulness is limited.

This is culture, not physics: one could argue that the Beatles, Frank Sinatra, Woody Guthrie, or Little Richard were punk—"oooo—he had punk attitude."

Btw, what did punk accomplish that wouldn't already exist—another thread I guess.

Except for links to music threads I might create, this should be my last post on music in this thread for at least 72 hours.

02-09-2019, 12:00 PM	#1207 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	The Ramones were from Queens They invented punk rock They’re the greatest band ever __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

02-09-2019, 12:18 PM	#1209 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	I can play the dig one foot deeper game forever too But I won’t because I know the Ramones so I don’t have to The truth it turns out is simple and we knew it all along __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

02-09-2019, 12:31 PM	#1210 (permalink)
DMBFFF I like the green. Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 274	The terms and the debates are useful, but the usefulness is limited. This is culture, not physics: one could argue that the Beatles, Frank Sinatra, Woody Guthrie, or Little Richard were punk—"oooo—he had punk attitude." Btw, what did punk accomplish that wouldn't already exist—another thread I guess. Except for links to music threads I might create, this should be my last post on music in this thread for at least 72 hours.