Political Discussions for "Adults"

DMBFFF · 02-09-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

This is the origin point imo. Nothing proto about it.

Looks like you won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monks

Quote:

The Monks, referred to by the name monks on record sleeves, were an American garage rock band formed in Gelnhausen, West Germany in 1964. Assembled by five American GIs stationed in the country, the group grew tired of the traditional format of rock, which motivated them to forge a highly experimental style characterized by an emphasis on hypnotic rhythms that minimized the role of melody, augmented by the use of sound manipulation techniques. The band's unconventional blend of shrill vocals, feedback, and guitarist David Day's six-string banjo baffled audiences, but music historians have since identified the Monks as a pioneering force in avant-garde music. The band's lyrics often voiced objection to the Vietnam War and the apparently dehumanized state of society, while prefiguring the harsh and blunt commentary of the punk rock movement of the 1970s and 1980s. The band's appearance was considered as shocking as its music, as they attempted to mimic the look of Catholic monks by wearing black habits with cinctures symbolically tied around their necks, and hair worn in partially shaved tonsures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fugs

Quote:

The Fugs are a band formed in New York City in late 1964[1] by the poets Ed Sanders and Tuli Kupferberg, with Ken Weaver on drums. Soon afterward, they were joined by Peter Stampfel and Steve Weber of the Holy Modal Rounders. Kupferberg named the band from a euphemism for **** used in Norman Mailer's novel The Naked and the Dead.

The band lead the underground scene of the 1960s and became an important part of the American counterculture of that decade.[2] The group is known for its comedic, even lewd, nature but also earned fame through their persistent anti-Vietnam War sentiment during the 1960s.[3] Some 1969 correspondence found inside an FBI file on the rock group The Doors called The Fugs the "most vulgar thing the human mind could possibly conceive".[4]

Quote:

Who can kill a general in his bed?
Overthrow dictators if they're red?
****ing-a man!
CIA Man!

"The Watts Riot song"

Quote:

Take your TV tube and eat it
'N all that phony stuff on sports
'N all THOSE unconfirmed reports

Quote:

Hey you know something people
I'm not black
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 10:48 AM

Eh, punk was a collection of disparate scenes given a name. Many of the bands didn't even sound alike. Punk started at CBGB's and with the Sex Pistols. Saying other bands sounded like those bands or had similar attitudes or whatever is kind of beside the point. From the Fugs to the Monks to VU and the Stooges they were just all alternative rock before it had a name. Punk was alternative rock before it had a name and if it hadn't blown up and fossilized a sound that was just one (or several) links in the alternative rock chain of evolution then figuring out who was the first punk band would interest nobody.

**Frownland** · 02-09-2019, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

Eh, punk was a collection of disparate scenes given a name.

I agree. I think the sound and attitude existed on a very small scale between groups of friends in the form of outsider art long before the 70s.

Quote:

Many of the bands didn't even sound alike. Punk started at CBGB's and with the Sex Pistols. Saying other bands sounded like those bands or had similar attitudes or whatever is kind of beside the point. From the Fugs to the Monks to VU and the Stooges they were just all alternative rock before it had a name. Punk was alternative rock before it had a name and if it hadn't blown up and fossilized a sound that was just one (or several) links in the alternative rock chain of evolution then figuring out who was the first punk band would interest nobody.

That's cultural appropriation.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

don't think this thing is unique to punk even

first hip hop artist or first metal band or whatever

it all becomes dumb

Absolutely, but punk in a way is even more storied than hip hop or metal. It's the start of so much that is important and influential, is counter culture rebellion personified (or stereotyped) in music, and it hit kind of all at once and took the world's imagination by storm in a way that hip hop and metal never did in such a sledge hammer/face kind of way that mythologizing about who was the first punk band or where punk started is even more of a rock fetish than figuring out if Black Sabbath really were the first metal band.

And the reason this is is, again, because it happened so abruptly in popular consciousness, and it did so because the London scene blew up so much so quickly, largely because of the Sex Pistols, and yeah a big part of that was because of a fashion aesthetic adopted from early Television.

Quote:

I just think it's a matter of historical fact that punk as a cultural phenomenon originated in the US of A whether that starts with VU or Suicide or TV

New York was a bit ahead of the curb musically, and again early Television birthed the punk fashion aesthetic, but without the Sex Pistols and the sheer proliferation of London bands I doubt nearly as many people would have been forced to look at the point of a gun. However punk started musically the phenomenon was absolutely of British origin.

rostasi · 02-09-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

However punk started musically the phenomenon was absolutely of British origin.

This.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

totally sure we already had this argument

but seeing as CBGB already had the fashion, the title, the sound, people identifying as punks

all prior to the UK acts that broke-out, I just don't see this as true

yeah it turned out to be more popular in the UK

but it's not as if Talking Heads weren't going to sell a bazillion albums regardless

The **** did Talking Heads have to do with punk? They were new wave as **** but nobody trying to be punk ever gave the slightest **** about the Talking Heads.

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 10:55 AM

Although to be perfectly ****ing honest I have zero justification for not calling this stone cold punk when it absolutely destroys almost all of punk (Ramones included).

Anteater · 02-09-2019, 11:24 AM

Nah, it all really started with Cromagnon.

OccultHawk · 02-09-2019, 12:00 PM

The Ramones were from Queens

They invented punk rock

They’re the greatest band ever

The Batlord · 02-09-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

The Ramones were from Queens

They invented punk rock

They’re the greatest band ever

From me to you.

02-09-2019, 12:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	The Ramones were from Queens They invented punk rock They’re the greatest band ever __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html