The Environmental Watchdog MasterThread

**Frownland** · 08-09-2021, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I think the lopsided truth is that yes, we messed up the environment, but out of ignorance of the consequences.

Might be true on a level, but

Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago

The funding of climate change denialism from the oil industry is also a tacit admission of foreknowledge. Even going back to the early industrial revolution, people in England seemed to widely recognize the direct impact of the recent industrialization on the environment.

idk how to solve the issue of developing nations' emissions without it damning them to underdevelopment. Return to monke should be a choice, not something imposed on by powerful western governments. Even if they abandon coal, the transportation of materials for infrastructure will virtually always be high output.

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That's what we want from India, China and Brasil: do something smarter, not based on the circs of 100 years ago.

Modi's on some bull****, but Kerala has been innovating on farming and localization which is hopeful.

Anteater · 08-09-2021, 07:10 PM

Lisna, you should look at some of the other figures in those links and a few other stories. One has it at 30%, the others are slightly lower and another dataset I saw had it at 32%. The stats vary on the U.S. and E.U. too as far as CO2 numbers go. Looking at all the different reports together, 30% is about right for China for 2021. I had assumed you had looked at other data when I responded to you. You don't need to be such a literalist if that wasn't the case.

As far as my comments go about the buyer-seller relationship goes...China has most of the leverage and they don't seem to want things to change. That's why despite all the talk from Trump and being "tough" on China, the trade wars don't change the status quo all that much. If the nature of that relationship ever does change, you'd have to see regime changes in both countries way beyond what we have seen in the last few decades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

And Anteater calling himself "solution-oriented" is ludicrous when his solution is to "make China do X". How you gonna make China do anything, Ant, when half the political class in your country is actively obstructing climate change solutions and the other half is just kicking the can down the road? Are you personally going to make China do anything? Seems to me if you want to make China do anything you first have to change your own country's stance on climate change. Unless you support grass roots eco terrorism in China?

I thought the obvious solution was to incentivize China to stop using coal. We agreed it was a bad idea in the U.S. a long time ago - is there some reason why they should stay on coal and not go above and beyond what the U.S. has done?

The Batlord · 08-09-2021, 07:35 PM

I didn't ask what are you going to make China do, I asked how are you going to make China do anything? The onus on us as Americans isn't to change China. It's to change America.

The Batlord · 08-09-2021, 09:15 PM

Yeah terrorism would almost surely have little return on investment but it's at least a different approach from almost certain eco doom.

~~jwb~~ · 08-09-2021, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Yeah terrorism would almost surely have little return on investment but it's at least a different approach from almost certain eco doom.

if it has little return on investment how is it not still just almost certain eco doom lol

The Batlord · 08-09-2021, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

if it has little return on investment how is it not still just almost certain eco doom lol

I'm not advocating for ecoterrorism, I'm horrified at our lack of agency in geopolitics. I mean even if we don't start blowing **** up America will almost certainly give ever more violent power to the police and border Patrol because America knows the destabilization to come via climate change and wants to give our state violence organizations the ability to shoot who needs to be shot to preserve the status quo.

So why not just kill all those government thugs?

The Batlord · 08-09-2021, 10:16 PM

So I guess what I'm saying is the people who we should be murdering in the street haven't taken their ultimate form who we should be murdering in the street but the ultimate battle is still here.

Anteater · 08-09-2021, 10:20 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

So I guess what I'm saying is the people who we should be murdering in the street haven't taken their ultimate form who we should be murdering in the street but the ultimate battle is still here.

I was thinking about how you'd theoretically force China's hand and I dunno tbh. If the CCP are anything like our own domestic Elect class, then they're just gonna take their money and run to space if things got bad enough and leave the rest of the population to rot. Maybe get an army of hackers and target their assets?

The Batlord · 08-09-2021, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I was thinking about how you'd theoretically force China's hand and I dunno tbh. If the CCP are anything like our own domestic Elect class, then they're just gonna take their money and run to space if things got bad enough and leave the rest of the population to rot. Maybe get an army of hackers and target their assets?

Maybe just become a terrorist. I mean it's hard to justify murdering Israeli children when you're gonna lose either way but what are Palestinians supposed to do when the only other option is nothing?

Anteater · 08-09-2021, 11:45 PM

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Originally Posted by elphenor

Bruh nobody care about your China thing

Bruh he literally asked me a question just a few posts ago.

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

Maybe just become a terrorist. I mean it's hard to justify murdering Israeli children when you're gonna lose either way but what are Palestinians supposed to do when the only other option is nothing?

Wouldn't surprise me to see Jerusalem blow up one of these days.