The Environmental Watchdog MasterThread

The Batlord · 09-30-2019, 08:52 PM

I did say a vast change. I just don't know what a fall from such a high level of civilization would look like. And the EPA probably will end up being a waste of time at the end of the day. But if they wanna try then might as well.

~~jwb~~ · 09-30-2019, 08:52 PM

I think it would look rather similar to Somalia.

The Batlord · 09-30-2019, 08:55 PM

I mean the infrastructure would still exist in some state presumably. Somalia never even had that right?

~~jwb~~ · 09-30-2019, 09:00 PM

The infrastructure is reliant on the society that produced and maintains it. It's reliant on a vast, interconnected global economy. You think if catastrophe strikes we can just scale it down to fit the population?

Look at Rome after the fall. Look at any of the various civilizations that have collapsed. It's very possible to move backwards significantly in terms of every metric of civilization.

~~jwb~~ · 09-30-2019, 09:05 PM

I mean this isn't a civilization, but look at Detroit. They had all the infrastructure of a booming metropolis. Even in the context of a first world nation, without the proper economy and investment and upkeep Detroit now looks like a third world country.

The Batlord · 09-30-2019, 09:07 PM

True. I suppose it all depends on just how far the world falls into chaos and for how long.

~~jwb~~ · 09-30-2019, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

^ Yes, I agree that a generation of single-child families should halve the world pop, bringing it to a still-worrying 3.5 billion. If that report you quote turns out to be accurate, I would applaud a reduction in world pop. I guess we have to wait and see, though I worry about various news items that indicate how some populations are deliberately manipulated to overproduce.

I'm not expecting the population to shrink. I'm expecting the growth to continue to slow down.

Quote:

In Africa, systematic rape has been used as a way to subdue locals, causing a population spike. In America, the mormons are the fastest growing religion and their beliefs encourage families of 10, 20 kids.

lol

Quote:

^ This is an unusual argument; "Don't look at the big picture". Unusual, perhaps, because it's about as wise as saying, "Let's put our heads in the sand."

uh no I wasn't saying don't look at the big picture I was explaining the big picture from my pov. The population boom caused by the industrial revolution is most notably observed in third world/industrializing countries. Rich, industrialized countries trend towards lower birth rates. That's a simple fact.

Quote:

^ That kind of solicited immigration is, afaik, because the economy of every industrialised country is based on the desirability of endless economic growth. Big picture stuff, but a planet of limited size cannot sustain limitless growth.

No. That's incorrect. Because guess what? Industrializing countries also rely on economic growth. In fact, they grow even faster. Germany's native population is aging because they aren't having many kids as they used to. And when you have an aging population who are exiting the work force quicker than the younger population entering it, that's a problem. Especially in a rich welfare state like Germany.

Quote:

This is a point that ties into Anteater's comment about improving food production. Yes, that might help short-term, but unfortunately, there is a drawback: food production generates methane and food consumption generates methane. Methane levels are set to jump to historically ( and pre-historically) high levels, quite possibly outranking CO2 as the biggest driver of global warming.

they need to develop methane and carbon trapping technology in addition to cleaner energy or else we're probably ****ed

Anteater · 09-30-2019, 10:21 PM

Some food for thought that supports some of what jwb is talking about.

The Batlord · 09-30-2019, 10:41 PM

cringe

DwnWthVwls · 10-01-2019, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I did say a vast change. I just don't know what a fall from such a high level of civilization would look like. And the EPA probably will end up being a waste of time at the end of the day. But if they wanna try then might as well.

I cant speak for everyone, but we have bi-monthly meetings presenting our Superfund cleanup efforts to the EPA and NJDEP and I assure you they are a serious about their jobs and constantly questioning things.

09-30-2019, 08:52 PM	#572 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I think it would look rather similar to Somalia.

09-30-2019, 09:00 PM	#574 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	The infrastructure is reliant on the society that produced and maintains it. It's reliant on a vast, interconnected global economy. You think if catastrophe strikes we can just scale it down to fit the population? Look at Rome after the fall. Look at any of the various civilizations that have collapsed. It's very possible to move backwards significantly in terms of every metric of civilization.

09-30-2019, 09:05 PM	#575 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I mean this isn't a civilization, but look at Detroit. They had all the infrastructure of a booming metropolis. Even in the context of a first world nation, without the proper economy and investment and upkeep Detroit now looks like a third world country.