The Environmental Watchdog MasterThread

**Frownland** · 06-16-2017, 06:40 PM

No justice until a conviction.

Lisnaholic · 06-18-2017, 10:32 AM

^ That story sounds like Erin Brockovich, The Remake . The lady holding up the baby's bottle of polluted water certainly scored a great PR goal.

Prompted by that recent discussion in another thread, I thought I'd post this graph again, which indicates why our behaviour is significant on a whole range of environmental issues; there is just such an unprecented number of people on the planet now:-

Even though each of us is only one of seven billion, we should at least try to reduce our environmental impact. Unfortunately, that often means making small, worthy but rather dull choices. And that description brings to mind the Ethical Consumer magazine, which I have vague intentions about, but don't actually read:-

EC Issue166 - May 2017

Lisnaholic · 08-03-2017, 06:55 AM

This was always set to be a depressing thread as the effects of climate change inexorably impact our environment and the worrying predictions of the scientific community become reality. Here are a couple of updates:-

i) Yes, that chunk of ice did break off the Larsen C ice shelf (see post #65). There is now an iceberg the size of the state of Delaware floating around the southern seas. Does anyone know how long it takes to drive through Delaware, north to south? That's how long it'd take to cross the iceberg by car.

ii) rising sea levels, already mentioned by Rjinn among others. Here's a clip that shows the extent of the problems that Miami is facing, and why Miami is a canary in a coalmine for other coastal areas :-

iii) Trump's plan to gut the EPA and take the USA in a direction which will prove disastrous for the environment. (First mentioned by dj in post #58)
If you watch the first five minutes of this clip you'll be able to catch the following:-
> Miami floods as of yesterday
> Scientist declaring that in USA governmental policy, "myth has temporarily triumphed over science". Unbelievable but true, but this is already quashing factual debate about the environment.
> Indefensible buffoon Trump declaring, "You can't be hurt by extreme weather." The fact is that extreme weather can kill you, a point made painfully clear by hurricane Katrina I would've thought.

Lisnaholic · 09-03-2017, 08:05 PM

If you want to lay the blame for the misery of Houston somewhere, there are plenty of candidates:-

One is the plain bad luck of having a hurricane stall in its wanderings, backtrack to pick up more water and then return to the same place.

Another is the modern demographics of urban sprawl:-

Quote:

"The hurricane is just a storm, it is not the disaster," said Dr Ilan Kelman, at the Institute for Risk and Disaster Reduction at University College London. "The disaster is the fact that Houston’s population has increased by 40% since 1990. The disaster is the fact that many people were too poor to afford insurance or evacuate.

And plenty of people are blaming climate change, of course, especially as more and bigger hurricanes are one of the consequences of global warming, as predicted by the scientific community for years.

Here’s what some scientists ‘ve been saying about Harvey:-

Quote:

There's a well-established physical law, the Clausius-Clapeyron equation, that says that a hotter atmosphere holds more moisture. For every extra degree Celsius in warming, the atmosphere can hold 7% more water. This tends to make rainfall events even more extreme when they occur.
Another element that we can mention with some confidence is the temperature of the seas."The waters of the Gulf of Mexico are about 1.5 degrees warmer above what they were from 1980-2010," Sir Brian Hoskins from the Grantham Institute for Climate Change told BBC Radio 4's Today programme."That is very significant because it means the potential for a stronger storm is there.”

Researchers are also quite confident in linking the intensity of the rainfall …in the Houston area to climate change. "This is the type of event, in terms of the extreme rainfall, that we would expect to see more of in a warming climate," said Dr Friederike Otto from the University of Oxford.

Trump’s government is mute on the topic of course because they are commited to the ostrich position and have been officially advised not to mention the phrase ”global warming.”

On the other hand, from a surprising quarter, lawyers are now smelling possible profit. Hurricane damage is usually described as an Act of God, and to date no deity has ruined his reputation by turning up to answer charges in a terrestrial court. But if hurricanes can be legally blamed on less divine agents then maybe insurers and lawyers can turn these events to their profit. After all, just like us, for years they've been promised that every cloud has a silver lining - and who better to access that silver than a determined legal team:-

Quote:

Environmental lawyers are questioning whether events like Harvey should still be referred to as "Acts of God" or "Natural Disasters" as they are made worse by emissions from fossil fuels. In a comment paper in the journal Nature Geoscience, they say legal action may be taken against countries that don't contribute to the global effort to cut emissions. They believe a new branch of knowledge called attribution science will allow the courts to decide with reasonable confidence that individual events have been exacerbated by manmade climate change.
They believe in future governments and firms risk being successfully sued if they don't cut their emissions.

This line of thinking conjures up the delightful prospect of Trump’s pro-fossil agencies defending themselves in court against a charge that the agencies aren’t even supposed to mention.

Wpnfire · 09-04-2017, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

This line of thinking conjures up the delightful prospect of Trump’s pro-fossil agencies defending themselves in court against a charge that the agencies aren’t even supposed to mention.

Hell yeah that would be terrific.

The Batlord · 09-04-2017, 11:13 AM

Probably the only way to get a boot up the corporations' collective ass and make them do something other than nothing.

Lisnaholic · 09-06-2017, 07:23 AM

@ Wpnfire and Batlord: Genuine thanks for responding to my rather lengthly post. And yes, getting a boot up the ass is one of many things you expose yourself to if you are bending over to bury your head in the sand, which is Trump's avowed policy on climate change.
__________________________________________________ ________________

You don't have to do many household repairs to realise that it's no good fixing something back the way that it was - it'll only break again. To save yourself aggravation in the long run, you have to fix it better than it was before.

I wonder if people in Houston are considering that principle as they return to their homes. For areas of low-density housing, Europeans have come up with a neat solution to protect property from periodic flooding: the amphibious house. This is designed to sit on dry land and isn't the same as a floating house, which is just a Yuppy version of the age-old houseboat . The European models for Amphibious Houses are very stylish, look expensive, and presuppose that you're building a new house. That's why I like very much what one Louisiana man has done; up-grading an existing building on a low budget. I wonder if we'll see anyone else adopt his effective, no-nonsense approach as the Texas coastal communities recover and repair themselves:-

.....

~~MicShazam~~ · 09-06-2017, 01:15 PM

I haven't read all of this thread yet* but I'd like to very briefly talk about the reason why.

Basically, I belive what climate researchers are telling us and it is depressing and worrying like almost nothing else. I have never even watched Al Gore's "the Uncomfortable Truth" movies. Not because I don't care or I don't belive him, but because I feel so depressed and anxious when hearing about that sort of thing that I instinctively hide from it so I don't have to feel bad.

Call me a pussy, but I'm so convinced that we're all completely ****ed that I seem to push climate science away to some barely used corner of my brain, just so I can function normally instead of feeling bad about it constantly. My ability to push bad thoughts aside is amazingly powerful.

It's not even a question of fearing for my own safety. It's more the thought that we have completely and irreversibly ****ed up the legacy of human civilazation for generations to come. I don't have any kids, but I feel sorry for anyone much younger than me. What about their kids and grandchildren?

I really should start facing the facts and get used to talk about it, but it really does harsh my mellow like nothing else can.

*but I will eventually

**Frownland** · 09-06-2017, 01:50 PM

TIL that cargo ships (of which there are only a handful) account for more pollution than all of the world's cars. So for the love of god cut those fancy imports out of your life.

~~MicShazam~~ · 09-06-2017, 01:59 PM

I get lots of Amazon imports which are mainly from planes, as far as I know. It's one of the things that bother me, since I really love CD's, but know that I should just stop in order to not be part of the problem. Why does everything have to be so complicated.

06-16-2017, 06:40 PM	#121 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	No justice until a conviction. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

06-18-2017, 10:32 AM	#122 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	^ That story sounds like Erin Brockovich, The Remake . The lady holding up the baby's bottle of polluted water certainly scored a great PR goal. Prompted by that recent discussion in another thread, I thought I'd post this graph again, which indicates why our behaviour is significant on a whole range of environmental issues; there is just such an unprecented number of people on the planet now:- Even though each of us is only one of seven billion, we should at least try to reduce our environmental impact. Unfortunately, that often means making small, worthy but rather dull choices. And that description brings to mind the Ethical Consumer magazine, which I have vague intentions about, but don't actually read:- EC Issue166 - May 2017 __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

08-03-2017, 06:55 AM	#123 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	This was always set to be a depressing thread as the effects of climate change inexorably impact our environment and the worrying predictions of the scientific community become reality. Here are a couple of updates:- i) Yes, that chunk of ice did break off the Larsen C ice shelf (see post #65). There is now an iceberg the size of the state of Delaware floating around the southern seas. Does anyone know how long it takes to drive through Delaware, north to south? That's how long it'd take to cross the iceberg by car. ii) rising sea levels, already mentioned by Rjinn among others. Here's a clip that shows the extent of the problems that Miami is facing, and why Miami is a canary in a coalmine for other coastal areas :- iii) Trump's plan to gut the EPA and take the USA in a direction which will prove disastrous for the environment. (First mentioned by dj in post #58) If you watch the first five minutes of this clip you'll be able to catch the following:- > Miami floods as of yesterday > Scientist declaring that in USA governmental policy, "myth has temporarily triumphed over science". Unbelievable but true, but this is already quashing factual debate about the environment. > Indefensible buffoon Trump declaring, "You can't be hurt by extreme weather." The fact is that extreme weather can kill you, a point made painfully clear by hurricane Katrina I would've thought. __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953 Last edited by Lisnaholic; 09-03-2017 at 08:05 PM. Reason: typo

09-06-2017, 07:23 AM	#127 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	@ Wpnfire and Batlord: Genuine thanks for responding to my rather lengthly post. And yes, getting a boot up the ass is one of many things you expose yourself to if you are bending over to bury your head in the sand, which is Trump's avowed policy on climate change. __________________________________________________ ________________ You don't have to do many household repairs to realise that it's no good fixing something back the way that it was - it'll only break again. To save yourself aggravation in the long run, you have to fix it better than it was before. I wonder if people in Houston are considering that principle as they return to their homes. For areas of low-density housing, Europeans have come up with a neat solution to protect property from periodic flooding: the amphibious house. This is designed to sit on dry land and isn't the same as a floating house, which is just a Yuppy version of the age-old houseboat . The European models for Amphibious Houses are very stylish, look expensive, and presuppose that you're building a new house. That's why I like very much what one Louisiana man has done; up-grading an existing building on a low budget. I wonder if we'll see anyone else adopt his effective, no-nonsense approach as the Texas coastal communities recover and repair themselves:- ..... __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

09-06-2017, 01:15 PM	#128 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	I haven't read all of this thread yet* but I'd like to very briefly talk about the reason why. Basically, I belive what climate researchers are telling us and it is depressing and worrying like almost nothing else. I have never even watched Al Gore's "the Uncomfortable Truth" movies. Not because I don't care or I don't belive him, but because I feel so depressed and anxious when hearing about that sort of thing that I instinctively hide from it so I don't have to feel bad. Call me a pussy, but I'm so convinced that we're all completely **ed that I seem to push climate science away to some barely used corner of my brain, just so I can function normally instead of feeling bad about it constantly. My ability to push bad thoughts aside is amazingly powerful. It's not even a question of fearing for my own safety. It's more the thought that we have completely and irreversibly *ed up the legacy of human civilazation for generations to come. I don't have any kids, but I feel sorry for anyone much younger than me. What about their* kids and grandchildren? I really should start facing the facts and get used to talk about it, but it really does harsh my mellow like nothing else can. but I will eventually Last edited by MicShazam; 09-06-2017 at 01:20 PM.*

09-06-2017, 01:50 PM	#129 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	TIL that cargo ships (of which there are only a handful) account for more pollution than all of the world's cars. So for the love of god cut those fancy imports out of your life. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-06-2017, 01:59 PM	#130 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	I get lots of Amazon imports which are mainly from planes, as far as I know. It's one of the things that bother me, since I really love CD's, but know that I should just stop in order to not be part of the problem. Why does everything have to be so complicated.