Islam in Europe

~~jwb~~ · 11-16-2020, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Because recognising that islamophobia and racism are at the root of the problem is totally the same as legitimising the violence

is that really the root of it or is it just a rule in their religion that they want everyone to comply to including non believers?

Like if some Christian murdered the piss Christ artist would we say the root cause of it was anti Christian sentiment?

**Marie Monday** · 11-16-2020, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

is that really the root of it or is it just a rule in their religion that they want everyone to comply to including non believers?

Like if some Christian murdered the piss Christ artist would we say the root cause of it was anti Christian sentiment?

Yeah phrasing it that way isn't accurate maybe, but I meant that muslim radicalism is partly (but fundamentally) due to discrimination.

OccultHawk · 11-16-2020, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Yeah phrasing it that way isn't accurate maybe, but I meant that muslim radicalism is partly (but fundamentally) due to discrimination.

Really? Is that the cause of the bull**** in Pakistan and Indonesia and Iran ... do they just chronically discriminate against themselves?

~~jwb~~ · 11-16-2020, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

It’s not tricky at all. The French government is defending free speech even in the face of violence.

Allah sucks my ding dong.

it's tricky in the sense that yeah I think it's ridiculous to react that way to a cartoon but I also don't think draw Muhammad day or burning the Quran is a very productive response. It's just antagonism for the sake of antagonism..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Yeah phrasing it that way isn't accurate maybe, but I meant that muslim radicalism is partly (but fundamentally) due to discrimination.

even that is an over simplification imo. Religious intolerance isn't solely a response to discrimination or even foreign policy. Those are part of the recipe but not the entire thing.

In the case of the cartoons in France and the reaction it got, bringing up colonialism or discrimination as the root cause is a way of deflecting from the elephant in the room which is that France is a secular country with values that might clash with a more conservative version of Islamic values. That's an uncomfortable conversation for obvious reasons but you can't ignore it.

But like I said before the answer is also not to get rid of or discriminate against Muslims. The ironic part is that's exactly what terrorist groups want France to do. They want them to alienate their Muslim population so they have a breeding ground for fresh recruits. They want the west to burn. They don't want us to be nicer to Muslims living here.

~~jwb~~ · 11-16-2020, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's only an uncomfortable conversation when one side thinks Islam is its own reason for the fundamental practice

if we understand that a secular Islam is totally possible under better circumstances, then we can honestly move towards solutions

I don't agree

It's uncomfortable because of the current reality of the situation. You can speculate as to why Islam has xyz tendency but the reality on the ground doesn't change regardless of what that reason is.

Can there be a more secular Islam? Sure if you water it down and stop taking it so seriously. But thats not how the Muslim world at large approaches it and that's where this clash of values comes from.