Islam in Europe

Zhanteimi · 08-15-2017, 07:58 PM

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Trollheart · 08-15-2017, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord

Get out.

Meh, I'm late for a stag party anyway. Doe!

**Frownland** · 08-15-2017, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

All stags are bucks. You've just failed at deer.

Yes, yes, tes.

Anteater · 08-15-2017, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

let's say the real number is whatever makes me feel better about my bigotry because let's be honest that's the only reason this poll is of interest to me

I was pointing out the irony of it being a poll with a European audience rather than an American one. Especially among the younger people where you'd think the vast majority would be liberal. Like 70 / 30 or 80 / 20. But you want to be CNN and see racists under every rock and tree branch simply for pointing out something that stood out.

Neapolitan · 08-15-2017, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I was pointing out the irony of it being a poll with a European audience rather than an American one. Especially among the younger people where you'd think the vast majority would be liberal. Like 70 / 30 or 80 / 20. But you want to be CNN and see racists under every rock and tree branch simply for pointing out something that stood out.

I was called for bigotry for connecting islamist extremism to "Abū Bakr al-Baghdadi." So just remind yourself you are dealing with a low infomation hack trying to pass himself off as a erudite.

Lilja · 08-15-2017, 11:35 PM

I think that much of the hatred in Europe towards refugees are nowadays pointed straight at those that come seeking economic freedom. Here in Sweden, refugees are given money, a place to live, and encouraged to take Swedish lessons (which are also free) and is tied to their welfare. Many of them end up in unpaid training jobs ("praktik) which rarely ever result in a real job... But they have to attend the classes and go to these jobs in order to get the money. So where are the loopholes? Well, there is nothing saying that you have to pass the Swedish classes so many end up taking the same class over and over in order to get the money. You can always get declared to be too emotionally scared to work and get out of the practical work...etc. But in the end, the last statistic I read from 2016 said out of 162,000 refugees that came in 2015, only 494 got a job ( https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/1...-500-fick-jobb ). And, so far, out of all these "youths" coming to Sweden, most that were tested (and they have to agree to be tested) were found to be above 18.

So, essentially you have a lot of people living off of social welfare at the moment in Sweden and it is really starting to piss people off.

In January, they are going to change the rules so that refugees will be required to have schooling (in other words basic elementary schooling) so that they will be employable. But where will the teachers come from who are supposed to train these people? Probably from the same place all the thousands of elementary and preschool teachers will be coming from that will be taking the burden of our overfilled schools.

And more low-paying jobs will be available...but they amount to around 15,000 before tax (about 10,000 SEK after tax which is about 1,200 USD a month). You can make more off of welfare in the end, if you are a family.

I just wish that they would government would stop doling out the money to the refugees or if it is doled out, tie it to the Swedish classes/education in a way that they have to pass the class at a certain level in order to get the money. And if they don't find a job in a certain period of time or show any interest in finding one, cut it off, send them home. Cut off all retroactive benifits, etc.

I realize this is a rant, but it is tiring. I realize that there are many refugees who come here who need to come here. But when you work 40-60 hours a week and realize that the people living next door to you have their lifestyle completly financed by your taxes while you have to pay for it..well you get a bit annoyed. The fact that the vast majority follow Islam is just fuel for the fire. And if you point that out, suddenly you are a racist.

Oriphiel · 08-16-2017, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

All stags are bucks. You've just failed at deer.

With Trollheart, just be glad none of them were teal.

djchameleon · 08-16-2017, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilja

I think that much of the hatred in Europe towards refugees are nowadays pointed straight at those that come seeking economic freedom. Here in Sweden, refugees are given money, a place to live, and encouraged to take Swedish lessons (which are also free) and is tied to their welfare. Many of them end up in unpaid training jobs ("praktik) which rarely ever result in a real job... But they have to attend the classes and go to these jobs in order to get the money.

This happens stateside too but people that have never applied for welfare just go around screaming everyone is frauding welfare to buy drugs based off of someone they know.

The real crooks out of the system here in the states is that the businesses that are hiring these unpaid welfare workers are getting a kick back and also using it as an excuse to not hiring union workers. They also in turn don't have to pay for insurance or any other benefits that comes with hiring a regular employee. The money given here is like 30 bucks per month the biggest benefit comes from the food stamps and having your rent paid. Those workfare workers end up getting stuck in these temp type jobs and barely ever transition over to a regular job. If they do get a regular job things like childcare gets cut off immediately then they struggle to pay for a babysitter while waiting for their first check and their check might not even be enough to cover childcare and transportation to work so they end up giving up and going back on welfare.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 08-16-2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilja

I realize this is a rant, but it is tiring. I realize that there are many refugees who come here who need to come here. But when you work 40-60 hours a week and realize that the people living next door to you have their lifestyle completly financed by your taxes while you have to pay for it..well you get a bit annoyed. The fact that the vast majority follow Islam is just fuel for the fire. And if you point that out, suddenly you are a racist.

Good post.

Quote:

But in the end, the last statistic I read from 2016 said out of 162,000 refugees that came in 2015, only 494 got a job. And, so far, out of all these "youths" coming to Sweden, most that were tested (and they have to agree to be tested) were found to be above 18.

Absolutely disgusting to be honest.

riseagainstrocks · 08-16-2017, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilja

But in the end, the last statistic I read from 2016 said out of 162,000 refugees that came in 2015, only 494 got a job ( https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/1...-500-fick-jobb ). And, so far, out of all these "youths" coming to Sweden, most that were tested (and they have to agree to be tested) were found to be above 18.

I realize this is a rant, but it is tiring. I realize that there are many refugees who come here who need to come here. But when you work 40-60 hours a week and realize that the people living next door to you have their lifestyle completly financed by your taxes while you have to pay for it..well you get a bit annoyed. The fact that the vast majority follow Islam is just fuel for the fire. And if you point that out, suddenly you are a racist.

To your first part, those numbers are a tad misleading:
https://www.economist.com/news/finan...ees-sweden-are

Doesn't mean the lower participation rate isn't a problem, but the context behind the numbers is faulty. The actual foreign-borne participation rate in the workforce is 63-65%, compared to 76-77% for native born Swedes. The phrasing of your statistic (and the parroting of the number on the Daily Caller and Brietbart) implies that immigrants/migrants/refugees/foreign-born residents participate at less than a 1% rate in the workforce, as a whole.

Things that aren't considered: 1. Not speaking the language. 2. Not reading the language 3. Likely having spent the past the past three months prior to arriving in Sweden running from some smugglers and to others. 4. Likely having spent the past three months prior to arriving in Sweden living in an active warzone. 5. Swedish cultural bias towards native born Swedes for open jobs (by the way, I'm not making a moral judgment here - even me, on my liberal "high horse" prefer the company of like-minded people who share my cultural and aesthetic values).

Point being, when you see a statistic that scream "foreigners are weird, feckless, and only harm their new communities", take a second and see if the context of that statistic is being manipulated. To judge the influx of a couple hundred thousand refugees, many fleeing from civil war and ethnic cleansing, as a failure after the first year or two is ahistorical. This is not to say that maybe, on balance, these new arrivals will be bad for Sweden in the long term. But that would buck a global trend of immigration being a net positive for the communities that embrace it.

To the second quoted paragraph, I fail to see how identifying them as Muslim affects your argument in any way. Unless you're saying that because they are Muslim they are incapable of being productive members of Swedish society?

08-15-2017, 07:58 PM	#1061 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic Last edited by Zhanteimi; 05-01-2018 at 04:33 PM.

08-15-2017, 11:35 PM	#1066 (permalink)
Lilja Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 521	I think that much of the hatred in Europe towards refugees are nowadays pointed straight at those that come seeking economic freedom. Here in Sweden, refugees are given money, a place to live, and encouraged to take Swedish lessons (which are also free) and is tied to their welfare. Many of them end up in unpaid training jobs ("praktik) which rarely ever result in a real job... But they have to attend the classes and go to these jobs in order to get the money. So where are the loopholes? Well, there is nothing saying that you have to pass the Swedish classes so many end up taking the same class over and over in order to get the money. You can always get declared to be too emotionally scared to work and get out of the practical work...etc. But in the end, the last statistic I read from 2016 said out of 162,000 refugees that came in 2015, only 494 got a job ( https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/1...-500-fick-jobb ). And, so far, out of all these "youths" coming to Sweden, most that were tested (and they have to agree to be tested) were found to be above 18. So, essentially you have a lot of people living off of social welfare at the moment in Sweden and it is really starting to piss people off. In January, they are going to change the rules so that refugees will be required to have schooling (in other words basic elementary schooling) so that they will be employable. But where will the teachers come from who are supposed to train these people? Probably from the same place all the thousands of elementary and preschool teachers will be coming from that will be taking the burden of our overfilled schools. And more low-paying jobs will be available...but they amount to around 15,000 before tax (about 10,000 SEK after tax which is about 1,200 USD a month). You can make more off of welfare in the end, if you are a family. I just wish that they would government would stop doling out the money to the refugees or if it is doled out, tie it to the Swedish classes/education in a way that they have to pass the class at a certain level in order to get the money. And if they don't find a job in a certain period of time or show any interest in finding one, cut it off, send them home. Cut off all retroactive benifits, etc. I realize this is a rant, but it is tiring. I realize that there are many refugees who come here who need to come here. But when you work 40-60 hours a week and realize that the people living next door to you have their lifestyle completly financed by your taxes while you have to pay for it..well you get a bit annoyed. The fact that the vast majority follow Islam is just fuel for the fire. And if you point that out, suddenly you are a racist. Last edited by Lilja; 08-16-2017 at 09:38 AM.