Islam in Europe

Trollheart · 07-01-2017, 10:28 AM

I guess in the truest sense of the word, it's terror, at least for the people who were involved. But that then makes any robbery, rape, racist attack etc terror. Maybe we need a new word?

OccultHawk · 07-01-2017, 10:53 AM

No. You just know it when you see it. Assault rifle under the lab coat blasting at random or nearly at random. That's it. Raping and killing a nurse he used to work with not it. I may not have a crystal clear demarcation line but I refuse to say it's not terrorism when if he were wearing a turban and praised Allah it would be. The implication is non-Muslim educated westerners aren't terrorists when they do the exact same ****. Saying this was "not terror related" is Islamophobic code for it wasn't a Muslim. And that extends itself into a false and prejudiced belief that except for very rare exceptions Muslims have a monopoly on terrorism. I may be a bigot but I'm not that bigoted. That's ridiculous.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 07-01-2017, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

No. You just know it when you see it. Assault rifle under the lab coat blasting at random or nearly at random. That's it. Raping and killing a nurse he used to work with not it. I may not have a crystal clear demarcation line but I refuse to say it's not terrorism when if he were wearing a turban and praised Allah it would be. The implication is non-Muslim educated westerners aren't terrorists when they do the exact same ****. Saying this was "not terror related" is Islamophobic code for it wasn't a Muslim. And that extends itself into a false and prejudiced belief that except for very rare exceptions Muslims have a monopoly on terrorism. I may be a bigot but I'm not that bigoted. That's ridiculous.

Nope.

OccultHawk · 07-01-2017, 10:56 AM

Yep.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 07-01-2017, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Yep.

It's not terror related.

Oxford English Dictionary:

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

This guy was just pissed off he got sacked and wanted revenge. It's not terrorism.

Scores back at 6-6.

The Batlord · 07-01-2017, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'd be with you in some cases

like bombing an abortion clinic, shooting up Republicans at a baseball game etc.

but random acts of psycho violence are not necessarily terrorism by definition, well Im sure you'd find a dictionary exception, but used in most contexts it means something more specific

Like I said, I'd go farther and define terrorism as a form of violent, political movements. Al Qaeda, the IRA, whatever groups bomb abortion clinics (assuming they have any legitimate organization). Calling Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber terrorists is technically correct, but does it make any sense to equate those individuals with those groups? They're different animals. What purpose does it serve besides diluting the idea of what terrorist organizations do to soften the blow of calling Islamic terrorist movements terrorists?

OccultHawk · 07-01-2017, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Like I said, I'd go farther and define terrorism as a form of violent, political movements. Al Qaeda, the IRA, whatever groups bomb abortion clinics (assuming they have any legitimate organization). Calling Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber terrorists is technically correct, but does it make any sense to equate those individuals with those groups? They're different animals. What purpose does it serve besides diluting the idea of what terrorist organizations do to soften the blow of calling Islamic terrorist movements terrorists?

That's too far the other way.

The Batlord · 07-01-2017, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I think we should basically retire the world all together tbh because the way it's been manipulated and co-opted by politicians ie "War on Terror" which is utterly meaningless like saying "War on violence"

so it's obvious they want to equate terrorism specifically to groups as you say and even more specifically to Muslim groups and it just muddies the waters, doublethink all over the place

and in the more nefarious cases conservatives want to say "War on Islam" but they can't so instead it's "War on terrorism"

That's the thing with terrorism. It is indeed a concept used more by extremist Muslim groups. There are Christian groups that fit the bill, and I'm sure by other religions that don't have the same newsworthy status, but Muslim religious extremists don't really have a serious analogue besides the IRA that I know of. It's a term that's used to describe groups like Al Qaeda and Hamas because governments don't really have any polite way of saying that they're not using it specifically to describe Al Qaeda and Hamas.

Trollheart · 07-01-2017, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

That's the thing with terrorism. It is indeed a concept used more by extremist Muslim groups. There are Christian groups that fit the bill, and I'm sure by other religions that don't have the same newsworthy status, but Muslim religious extremists don't really have a serious analogue besides the IRA that I know of. It's a term that's used to describe groups like Al Qaeda and Hamas because governments don't really have any polite way of saying that they're not using it specifically to describe Al Qaeda and Hamas.

Tamil Tigers? FARC? Bader-Meinhoff? Red Hand?

The Batlord · 07-01-2017, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Tamil Tigers? FARC? Bader-Meinhoff? Red Hand?

I'd be surprised if there weren't other analogues, and it's definitely hard to differentiate between revolutions and terrorist organizations, to the point that it often becomes pointless. But I suppose the one important dividing line would be if the movement has any international status. But then there are Islamic terrorist organizations that don't have any international status, and the idea that Islamic terrorism is all linked is obviously silly. Which is why I generally just say Islamic terrorism when I mean Islamic terrorism. Which is really what we're all talking about.

It's really all just confusing as **** simply because everyone is trying to apply a general term to Islamic terrorism so that "Islam" isn't in the phrase. So I guess I'm doing the same **** that I'm talking about with using "international". Terrorism is Islamic terrorism simply because that's really what we're all really talking about when we say terrorism.

07-01-2017, 10:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	I guess in the truest sense of the word, it's terror, at least for the people who were involved. But that then makes any robbery, rape, racist attack etc terror. Maybe we need a new word? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

07-01-2017, 10:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	No. You just know it when you see it. Assault rifle under the lab coat blasting at random or nearly at random. That's it. Raping and killing a nurse he used to work with not it. I may not have a crystal clear demarcation line but I refuse to say it's not terrorism when if he were wearing a turban and praised Allah it would be. The implication is non-Muslim educated westerners aren't terrorists when they do the exact same ****. Saying this was "not terror related" is Islamophobic code for it wasn't a Muslim. And that extends itself into a false and prejudiced belief that except for very rare exceptions Muslims have a monopoly on terrorism. I may be a bigot but I'm not that bigoted. That's ridiculous. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

07-01-2017, 10:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Yep. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html