Islam in Europe

**Goofle** · 05-23-2017, 06:25 PM

Yep. Armed police everywhere, can confirm.

OccultHawk · 05-23-2017, 06:29 PM

My guess is it's just closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-23-2017, 08:12 PM

I thought this was

Neapolitan · 05-23-2017, 10:40 PM

Everytime there is a terroristic islamist attack I look up the date to see if there is any historical significance and there is more often then not a link to the past. The terrorists are thinking "yeah, you won on that date in the past but in the future you will always be afraid of that date."
May 22nd:

Quote:

1941 During the Anglo-Iraqi War, British troops take Fallujah

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_22
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-24-2017, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Everytime there is a terroristic islamist attack I look up the date to see if there is any historical significance and there is more often then not a link to the past. The terrorists are thinking "yeah, you won on that date in the past but in the future you will always be afraid of that date."
May 22nd:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_22
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War

+

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lee_Rigby

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-25-2017, 09:13 AM

Article from Douglas Murray.

Quote:

The meeting place of the two worlds could not have been more sharply defined. In Manchester Arena, thousands of young women had spent the night singing and dancing at a show in Ariana Grande’s Dangerous Woman tour. Songs such as the hit ‘Side To Side’ were performed: ‘Tonight I’m making deals with the devil/ And I know it’s gonna get me in trouble…/ Let them hoes know.’

ADVERTISING

Waiting for them in the foyer as they streamed out was Salman Ramadan Abedi, a 22-year-old whose Libyan parents settled in the UK after fleeing the Gaddafi regime. A man whose neighbours said he must have been radicalised in Manchester, ‘all those types’ having been driven out of Tripoli. So it was that on their exit from the Manchester Arena, these young women — out for nothing more than a good night — met a literalist from the Islamic faith. A man for whom the concept of a ‘dangerous woman’ was not a joke, not about ‘empowerment’ and certainly not a metaphor. Abedi would have believed it was real: devil, hoes, the lot.

Douglas Murray and Haras Rafiq discuss what can be done:

Even after all these years, all these attacks and all these dead, the West still keeps asking the same question after events like those of Monday night: ‘Who would do such a thing?’ The answer is always the same. Sometimes the culprits are home-grown. Sometimes they are recent arrivals. Sometimes they have been in the West for generations, eat fish and chips and play cricket. Sometimes — like last month’s attacker in Stockholm, or last year’s suicide bomber in Ansbach, Germany — they arrived in Europe just a few months earlier. Sometimes people claim the perpetrator is a lone wolf, unknown to the authorities. More often it turns out (in a term coined by Mark Steyn) to be a known wolf, in the peripheral vision of the security services.

Yet still our society wonders: what would make someone do such a thing? The tone of bafflement is strange — like a society that keeps asking a question, but keeps its fingers lodged firmly in its ears whenever it is given the answer.

Only last month this now traditional national rite was led by no less a figure than the Dean of Westminster, the Very Reverend Dr John Hall. At the beginning of April, Westminster Abbey was the venue for a national act of mourning for the victims of the previous month’s terrorist attack. The Dean used his sermon — at what was billed as ‘a service of hope’ — to announce that Britain was ‘bewildered’ by the actions of Khalid Masood.

‘What could possibly motivate a man,’ asked the Dean, ‘to hire a car and take it from Birmingham to Brighton to London, and then to drive it fast at people he had never met, couldn’t possibly know, against whom he had no personal grudge, no reason to hate them, and then run at the gates of the Palace of Westminster to cause another death? It seems likely we shall never know.’

Actually, most people could likely make a guess. And had the Dean waited just a few days, he could have joined them. Masood’s final WhatsApp messages, sent to a friend just before he ploughed his car along Westminster Bridge, revealed this Muslim convert was ‘waging jihad’ for Allah. The Dean was hardly going to get back up into his pulpit and say: ‘Apologies. Turns out we do know. It was jihad for Allah.’ The impossibility of that scenario speaks to the deeper disaster — beneath the bodies and the blood — of the state we’ve got into.

For their part, the Islamists are amazingly clear about what they want and the reasons why they act accordingly. You never have to read between the lines. Listen to Jawad Akbar, recorded in the UK in 2004 as he discussed the soft targets he and his al Qaeda-linked cell were planning to hit. The targets included the Ministry of Sound nightclub in London. What was the appeal? As Akbar said to his colleague, Omar Khyam, no one could ‘turn round and say “Oh they are innocent”, those slags dancing around.’

It is the same reason why ten years ago next month Bilal Abdullah and Kafeel Ahmed (an NHS doctor and an engineering PhD student respectively) planted a car bomb outside the glass front of the Tiger Tiger club on London’s Haymarket on ladies’ night. They then planted another just down the road in the hope that those ‘slags’ fleeing from the first blast would run straight into the second. It is why when Irfan Naseer and his 11-member cell from Birmingham were convicted of plotting mass casualty terror attacks in 2013, one of their targets was — once again — a nightclub area of the city. In familiar tones, Naseer speculated on these places where ‘the kuffar [a derogatory term for non-Muslims], slags and whores go drinking and clubbing’ and ‘have sex like donkeys’.

Where does it come from, this hatred the Islamists hold — as well as everyone else they loathe — for half the human species? Even moderate Muslims hate it when you ask this, but the question is begged before us all. What do people think the burka is? Or the niqab? Or even the headscarf? Why do Muslim societies — however much freedom they give men — always and everywhere restrict the freedom of women? Why are the sharia courts, which legally operate in the UK, set up to prejudice the rights of women? Why do Islamists especially hate women from their faith who raise their voices against the literalists and extremists?

Do people think this stuff comes from thin air? It was always there. Because it’s at the religion’s origins and, unlike the women–suspecting stuff in the other monotheisms (mild though they are by comparison), too few people are willing to admit it or reform this hatred, disdain and of course fear of women that is inherent in Islam. It is a constant of Islamic history, along with the Jews, the gays and the ‘wrong type of Muslim’: always and everywhere, the question of women. It’s our own fault because we have been told it so many times. As the Australian cleric Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali famously said to 500 worshippers in Sydney in 2006: ‘If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside without cover, and the cats come to eat it, whose fault is it — the cat’s or the uncovered meat’s? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.’

This view is itself barely covered over. Such disdain is what led to the abuse of hundreds of girls in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxfordshire and elsewhere across this country in recent decades. The fear is what led to the Pakistani Taleban beheading Shabana — one of the region’s most famous dancers — in the Swat Valley in 2009. And to the stoning of Ghofrane Haddaoui in Marseilles (yes, Marseilles) in 2004.

Obviously, in the wake of Manchester, there are security questions to address. Not least how someone once again known to the authorities could have made such a devastatingly effective explosive device. Certainly it shatters the comforting narrative we have told ourselves in Britain over recent years, that the security services are one step ahead of the terrorists on most things other than the (essentially impossible to prevent) knife and car jihad attacks.

But what we seem most likely to dodge yet again is the possibility of learning any proper lessons at all from this.

Theresa May and other politicians stress we will never give in. And they are right to do so. But beneath the defiance lie deep, and deeply unanswered, questions. Questions which people across Europe are increasingly dwelling on, but which their political representatives dare not address.

Exactly a year ago, Greater Manchester Police staged a carefully prepared mock terrorist attack in the city’s shopping centre to test response capabilities. At one stage, an actor playing a suicide bomber burst through a doorway and detonated a fake device while shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ (‘Allah is Greatest’). The intention, obviously, was to make the scenario realistic. But the use of the jihadists’ signature sign-off sent social media into a spin. Soon community spokesmen were complaining on the media. One went on Sky to talk about the need ‘to have a bit of religious and cultural context when they’re doing training like this in a wider setting about the possible implications’.

Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan was hauled before the press. ‘On reflection,’ he admitted, ‘we acknowledge that it was unacceptable to use this religious phrase immediately before the mock suicide bombing, which so vocally linked this exercise with Islam. We recognise and apologise for the offence that this has caused.’

Greater Manchester’s police and crime commissioner, Tony Lloyd, followed up: ‘It is frustrating the operation has been marred by the ill-judged, unnecessary and unacceptable decision by organisers to have those playing the parts of terrorists to shout “Allahu Akbar” before setting off their fake bombs. It didn’t add anything to the event, but has the potential to undermine the great community relations we have in Greater Manchester.’ Perhaps when the blood has been cleared from the pavements of Manchester, someone could ask how many lives such excruciating societal stupidity — from pulpit to police force — has saved, or ever will save?

In Piccadilly Gardens, at lunchtime on the day after the attacks, crowds of people listened to a busker play the usual post-massacre playlist: ‘All You Need Is Love’ and ‘Everything’s Gonna Be Alright’. But just like the renditions of ‘Imagine’, the buskers are wrong. We need to do more than imagine. We need more than love. Everything is not all right. We need to address this problem, and start at the roots. Otherwise our societies will continue to be caught between people who mean what they say and a society which won’t even listen. And so they’ll keep meeting violently, these two worlds.

On Monday night, Ariana Grande was in her traditional suspenders, singing: ‘Don’t need permission/ Made my decision to test my limits/ ’Cause it’s my business, God as my witness…/ I’m locked and loaded/ Completely focused.’ Outside, waiting, was someone who was really focused. It is time we made some effort to focus, too.

OccultHawk · 05-25-2017, 10:51 AM

It's amazing to me anyone could disagree with any of that. The terrorists literally scream they're doing it for Allah but people still argue over the cause. Like Murray says the terrorists are being completely clear. There's no subtext. You don't have to make an inference. Still we debate. Lol.

Aloysius · 05-25-2017, 11:08 PM

I can't help feeling that parts of the left are currently suffering a version 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' in that the far right is anti-islam, so taking the opposite stance seems like it must be correct. In the same way many on the right become climate change deniers simply because a push for cutting emissions is seen as a policy of the left.

There have always been thugs in Manchester but in past decades it was more of a join a gang and fight other gangs sort of thing. Killing innocent young girls at a concert is a different thing and it's disingenuous to see it as unconnected to a religious culture that sees these girls as sinners who deserve to die.

Chula Vista · 05-26-2017, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloysius

it's disingenuous to see it as unconnected to a religious culture that sees these girls as sinners who deserve to die.

Or maybe he just wanted to do the most outrageously unthinkable thing imaginable. Killing children always ups the outrage, fear, and response levels.

Not to mention a bunch of guys were killed and injured too. That arena is the largest in England so it's an obvious target to inflict the most damage. Plus one of the biggest pop stars today probably had filled all 22,000 seats.

I'm on the left. I dislike the broad brush painting of Islam. I hate terrorism for any reason but I also really dislike people who lump a whole group of people together because of the acts of a extremely small percentage of that whole group.

Justthefacts · 05-26-2017, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Or maybe he just wanted to do the most outrageously unthinkable thing imaginable. Killing children always ups the outrage, fear, and response levels.

Not to mention a bunch of guys were killed and injured too. That arena is the largest in England so it's an obvious target to inflict the most damage. Plus one of the biggest pop stars today probably had filled all 22,000 seats.

I'm on the left. I dislike the broad brush painting of Islam. I hate terrorism for any reason but I also really dislike people who lump a whole group of people together because of the acts of a extremely small percentage of that whole group.

Okay fair enough. I don't think anyone (Rep/Dem) are lumping a particular race of people onto terrorist watch lists. Many Muslims actually love American music and would happily come to the west and enjoy somewhat freedom. But it'd be foolish for us not to keep an eye out on specific people I.e profile. Whether they be black, Muslim, white. At such a strange time like this, the last thing we need in the west is an attack on our homeland, and certainly not one that could've been prevented. Thankfully though terrorism isn't as prevalent here as it is in France or the UK. So we're doing something right.

05-23-2017, 06:29 PM	#392 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	My guess is it's just closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

05-23-2017, 08:12 PM	#393 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	I thought this was

05-25-2017, 10:51 AM	#397 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	It's amazing to me anyone could disagree with any of that. The terrorists literally scream they're doing it for Allah but people still argue over the cause. Like Murray says the terrorists are being completely clear. There's no subtext. You don't have to make an inference. Still we debate. Lol.

05-25-2017, 11:08 PM	#398 (permalink)
Aloysius Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 353	I can't help feeling that parts of the left are currently suffering a version 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' in that the far right is anti-islam, so taking the opposite stance seems like it must be correct. In the same way many on the right become climate change deniers simply because a push for cutting emissions is seen as a policy of the left. There have always been thugs in Manchester but in past decades it was more of a join a gang and fight other gangs sort of thing. Killing innocent young girls at a concert is a different thing and it's disingenuous to see it as unconnected to a religious culture that sees these girls as sinners who deserve to die.