Islam in Europe

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard · 05-27-2017, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

Speaking of Muzzers and scores, you reminded me that the World Cup in five years is in Qatar, absolute scenes if Israel qualify for it

you seen this kid?

he's from Iran not Israel, but he's still looking like he's gonna be a monster player. british tabloids started calling him Iranian Messi

Trollheart · 05-28-2017, 10:52 AM

So here's the thing. FA Cup Final yesterday, I see everyone with "Heart MCR" placards and the two teams and everyone have a minute's silence before the match, and later I see the display roar "We stand together", and there's nothing wrong with those sentiments, but are they empty? I know it would have been horribly ironic, but still, had the final been bombed it would not have surprised me (still amazed/relieved a match has not been targeted yet).

The question I have is, is this it? Is it going to be like this every time an atrocity is committed, that everyone holds hands and cries and throws hashtags and memes around, or is anyone going to actually do anything to stop the next attack, or try to minimise the possibility of one? I know the UK can't fly off to bomb some random country or invade the first oil-rich region they find, but is there an answer, or is it just going to be a repetition of these, frankly pathetic scenes of people "standing together"? Does that help the victims, and will it help the next ones?

No, I have no answers, but I just wonder what everyone thinks? Are there measures that can be put in place, steps that can be taken, or is it just going to be the old "stiff upper lip" every time? I mean, I hate to break it to these people, but terrorists don't give a **** for your "stand together" #WeWillNotBreak or whatever the **** other useless gestures you make. They're just going to keep on doing this until something is done to stop them. But I see no evidence of anything being done, other than the threat level being raised. Sure, that will help, but it will be temporary, and any enemy knows you don't attack when you're expected to: you wait till the other party is off their guard and then go in for the kill. So once the terror threat level is reduced, will we see this repeat itself?

Answers on a postcard...

The Batlord · 05-28-2017, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

So here's the thing. FA Cup Final yesterday, I see everyone with "Heart MCR" placards and the two teams and everyone have a minute's silence before the match, and later I see the display roar "We stand together", and there's nothing wrong with those sentiments, but are they empty? I know it would have been horribly ironic, but still, had the final been bombed it would not have surprised me (still amazed/relieved a match has not been targeted yet).

The question I have is, is this it? Is it going to be like this every time an atrocity is committed, that everyone holds hands and cries and throws hashtags and memes around, or is anyone going to actually do anything to stop the next attack, or try to minimise the possibility of one? I know the UK can't fly off to bomb some random country or invade the first oil-rich region they find, but is there an answer, or is it just going to be a repetition of these, frankly pathetic scenes of people "standing together"? Does that help the victims, and will it help the next ones?

No, I have no answers, but I just wonder what everyone thinks? Are there measures that can be put in place, steps that can be taken, or is it just going to be the old "stiff upper lip" every time? I mean, I hate to break it to these people, but terrorists don't give a **** for your "stand together" #WeWillNotBreak or whatever the **** other useless gestures you make. They're just going to keep on doing this until something is done to stop them. But I see no evidence of anything being done, other than the threat level being raised. Sure, that will help, but it will be temporary, and any enemy knows you don't attack when you're expected to: you wait till the other party is off their guard and then go in for the kill. So once the terror threat level is reduced, will we see this repeat itself?

Answers on a postcard...

The people who actually want to do something about it are the same people voting for Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. Count your ****ing blessings that so many people aren't doing anything.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-28-2017, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

So here's the thing. FA Cup Final yesterday, I see everyone with "Heart MCR" placards and the two teams and everyone have a minute's silence before the match, and later I see the display roar "We stand together", and there's nothing wrong with those sentiments, but are they empty?

Yes. Pointless.

Quote:

I know it would have been horribly ironic, but still, had the final been bombed it would not have surprised me (still amazed/relieved a match has not been targeted yet).

It's only a matter of time. An attempt was made on the Stade de France if you remember but that one failed.

Quote:

No, I have no answers, but I just wonder what everyone thinks? Are there measures that can be put in place, steps that can be taken, or is it just going to be the old "stiff upper lip" every time? I mean, I hate to break it to these people, but terrorists don't give a **** for your "stand together" #WeWillNotBreak or whatever the **** other useless gestures you make. They're just going to keep on doing this until something is done to stop them. But I see no evidence of anything being done, other than the threat level being raised. Sure, that will help, but it will be temporary, and any enemy knows you don't attack when you're expected to: you wait till the other party is off their guard and then go in for the kill. So once the terror threat level is reduced, will we see this repeat itself?

Answers on a postcard...

There are things you can do but it's difficult. Do you have any ideas TH?

Trollheart · 05-28-2017, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

The people who actually want to do something about it are the same people voting for Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. Count your ****ing blessings that so many people aren't doing anything.

Yeah, obviously I don't mean a "final solution" sort of thing like those people advocate, and let's hope they never get into pow ... oh. Well, anyway...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

Yes. Pointless.

Right? It's almost like people standing up to bullies when they know they're going to get their arses handed to them. Completely empty gesture, even if made in the right spirit.

Quote:

It's only a matter of time. An attempt was made on the Stade de France if you remember but that one failed.

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. I kind of meant a successful (from the terrorists' point of view) one. But yeah.

Quote:

There are things you can do but it's difficult. Do you have any ideas TH?

It's easy to sit here on the sidelines and preach. Luckily nothing has yet happened in Ireland, but it may only be a matter of time. I'm hoping we're too small to bother with: we can do nothing on our own, but then, as part of a group force maybe we're legitimate targets.

Hard to know where to draw the line between personal freedom/civil rights and security. You can't screen everyone going into a concert or a football match, but perhaps there could be some sort of detection system like they have in airports? Would people be prepared, do you think, to be delayed getting into a venue in order to be able to exit it alive? Deeper security checks but for ****'s sake when someone is on the radar DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. How many of these attackers were "being watched by the police"? What help is that? I'm sure that for every attack that carries through there are ten foiled, but that doesn't help the parents of those kids, or anyone else bereaved by one of these attacks.

Deportation for political views? I don't know: if you've been proven to be linked with terror organisations or hate speech, maybe there's a case for that. Not easy to take someone's home away. But there must be something that can be done, other than just holding up banners after the dead have been buried.

**Frownland** · 05-28-2017, 12:34 PM

How about life sentences for attempting to carry out an attack and deportation for anyone who knew of that person's motives and aided them in any way (housing, funds, etc.) or failing to turn them in. I imagine that the latter is difficult to establish and could be abused. It'd need to be fine tuned for sure.

Trollheart · 05-28-2017, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

How about life sentences for attempting to carry out an attack and deportation for anyone who knew of that person's motives and aided them in any way (housing, funds, etc.) or failing to turn them in. I imagine that the latter is difficult to establish and could be abused. It'd need to be fine tuned for sure.

There definitely should be some tough sentencing for aiding and abetting. Like yer man in Libya, that bomber's brother, who said he knew beforehand what his brother intended to do. Legally, at the moment, I'm not sure how that would work: accessory before the fact? Is that an enforcable law? Also, I know it might make freedom of speech difficult, but anyone posting congratulatory messages or celebratory messages, if in the UK, should be arrested too. Again, as you say, hard to enforce but maybe worth looking at?

**Frownland** · 05-28-2017, 12:48 PM

I think as far as congratulatory messages go, if they are directly sent to a terrorist or their network, that would be enforceable. Things like social media posts are too murky to even get into imo.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-28-2017, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Would people be prepared, do you think, to be delayed getting into a venue in order to be able to exit it alive?

They did this at Villa. After whatever the most recent attack was in France and Germany at the time, the club made an announcement to supporters to turn up half an hour early and wear as little clothing as possible &no bags so that it's less time to search everyone. Think it was about three games until the end of the season.

Not possible for every game people will just start turning up at kick off and take ages getting in, searching 30k+ people. And also this guy came in at the end of the concert, when they are more relaxed with security as everyone is coming out (same at football they just open the large gates), so he didn't even have to go through the security.

Quote:

Deeper security checks but for ****'s sake when someone is on the radar DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. How many of these attackers were "being watched by the police"? What help is that? I'm sure that for every attack that carries through there are ten foiled, but that doesn't help the parents of those kids, or anyone else bereaved by one of these attacks.

Agree mate apparently this guy was reported five times. Look how long it took for Anjem Choudary to be sent to prison as well.

Quote:

Deportation for political views? I don't know: if you've been proven to be linked with terror organisations or hate speech, maybe there's a case for that. Not easy to take someone's home away. But there must be something that can be done, other than just holding up banners after the dead have been buried.

Seen some suggestions on the regulation of mosques and hate preachers but not sure how workable it all is.

Integration is an issue imo.

**Frownland** · 05-28-2017, 03:30 PM

What would you think about targeting mosques that known terrorists have associated with?

05-28-2017, 10:52 AM	#432 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	So here's the thing. FA Cup Final yesterday, I see everyone with "Heart MCR" placards and the two teams and everyone have a minute's silence before the match, and later I see the display roar "We stand together", and there's nothing wrong with those sentiments, but are they empty? I know it would have been horribly ironic, but still, had the final been bombed it would not have surprised me (still amazed/relieved a match has not been targeted yet). The question I have is, is this it? Is it going to be like this every time an atrocity is committed, that everyone holds hands and cries and throws hashtags and memes around, or is anyone going to actually do anything to stop the next attack, or try to minimise the possibility of one? I know the UK can't fly off to bomb some random country or invade the first oil-rich region they find, but is there an answer, or is it just going to be a repetition of these, frankly pathetic scenes of people "standing together"? Does that help the victims, and will it help the next ones? No, I have no answers, but I just wonder what everyone thinks? Are there measures that can be put in place, steps that can be taken, or is it just going to be the old "stiff upper lip" every time? I mean, I hate to break it to these people, but terrorists don't give a ** for your "stand together" #WeWillNotBreak or whatever the ** other useless gestures you make. They're just going to keep on doing this until something is done to stop them. But I see no evidence of anything being done, other than the threat level being raised. Sure, that will help, but it will be temporary, and any enemy knows you don't attack when you're expected to: you wait till the other party is off their guard and then go in for the kill. So once the terror threat level is reduced, will we see this repeat itself? Answers on a postcard... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

05-28-2017, 12:34 PM	#436 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	How about life sentences for attempting to carry out an attack and deportation for anyone who knew of that person's motives and aided them in any way (housing, funds, etc.) or failing to turn them in. I imagine that the latter is difficult to establish and could be abused. It'd need to be fine tuned for sure. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

05-28-2017, 12:48 PM	#438 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I think as far as congratulatory messages go, if they are directly sent to a terrorist or their network, that would be enforceable. Things like social media posts are too murky to even get into imo. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

05-28-2017, 03:30 PM	#440 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	What would you think about targeting mosques that known terrorists have associated with? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x