I wonder why every Muslim environment is so ****ty? What do they all have in common?

1. Non-Muslims make up the majority of terrorists in the United States: According to the FBI, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States from 1980 to 2005 have been by non-Muslims. This means that an American terrorist suspect is over nine times more likely to be a non-Muslim than a Muslim. According to this same report, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism in the United States than Islamic, yet when was the last time we heard about the threat of Jewish terrorism in the media? For the same exact reasons that we cannot blame the entire religion of Judaism or Christianity for the violent actions of those carrying out crimes under the names of these religions, we have absolutely no justifiable grounds to blame Muslims for terrorism.

2. Non-Muslims make up the majority of terrorists in Europe: There have been over one thousand terrorist attacks in Europe in the past five years. Take a guess at what percent of those terrorists were Muslim. Wrong, now guess again. It’s less than 2%.

3. Even if all terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims, you still could not associate terrorism with Islam: There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970. Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks (which is an absurd assumption given the fact mentioned in my first point), those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightning in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan.

4. If all Muslims are terrorists, then all Muslims are peacemakers: The same statistical assumptions being used to falsely portray Muslims as violent people can be used more accurately to portray Muslims as peaceful people. If all Muslims are terrorists because a single digit percentage of terrorists happen to be Muslim, then all Muslims are peacemakers because 5 out of the past 12 Nobel Peace Prize winners (42 percent) have been Muslims.

5. If you are scared of Muslims then you should also be scared of household furniture and toddlers: A study carried out by the University of North Carolina showed that less than 0.0002% of Americans killed since 9/11 were killed by Muslims. (Ironically, this study was done in Chapel Hill: the same place where a Caucasian non-Muslim killed three innocent Muslims as the mainstream media brushed this terrorist attack off as a parking dispute). Based on these numbers, and those of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the average American is more likely to be crushed to death by their couch or television than they are to be killed by a Muslim. As a matter of fact, Americans were more likely to be killed by a toddler in 2013 than they were by a so-called “Muslim terrorist”.

Your own low bar for ****tiness when confirmation bias is at play.

It's a despicable ideology responsible for most of the atrocities inflicted upon the current world.

Other religions may be equally illogical, but they don't represent an existential threat to modern civilisation.

Islam is not responsible for that, as I just ****ing explained, but I wouldn't expect you to listen. Go ahead and make yourself dizzy going in these circles that is obviously feuled by the racist media you glob into. Have fun.

Frowny

Take off your ****ing blinders man

The price of steel brought the US into World War Two. Nothing else. That is the only factor.

Sounds idiotic when you put it in a different context huh.

Any figures for the past decade?

1. Source?
2. I don't think the last 47 years are in dispute. Most people in this thread are focusing on the last 15, at most.

You can't make any sort of statistical "assumption" with a sample size of 12.

One could argue that those numbers are not surprising, given the increased security since 9/11. Why exactly was it left out of the study?

Not debating—just nitpicking. :D Carry on.

Poverty leads to hopelessness. Which leads to being easy prey for manipulation, which leads to be susceptible to an ideology, which leads otherwise normal human beings to commit atrocities. Islam is associated with acts of terror because the Middle East is rife with poverty. Just look anywhere in the world where options are spare and life is hard and you'll see easy comparisons.

Why are so many South and Central American youth involved in narco organizations? Surely so many young men don't grow up hating their community and wishing for a life of horrific violence? Of course not, but lack of opportunity makes them susceptible to the 'get rich' ideology and so scores of young men die for their patrones every month. Same thing with the communist agitators in Russia, working for their political leaders, same thing with the Shining Path, the Nazi party, the IRA, etc. etc. Islam is a flavor that's on the rise for many reasons. It's foreign, it's religious and not political - which is less common in the West since the Enlightenment, they speak a strange language, cook with strange spices, wear strange clothes, write with strange letters, etc.

The leaders of ISIS and al Qaeda et. al use religion, a powerful tool as we all know, to warp young men into shrapnel. They're headed by yet more petty tyrants in a long line of cruel men, bent on power in this life, by convincing others of the glory in the next one. You play into their hands by focusing on the message and on the not the people directing it.

I'd encourage some of you taking the opposite tack to check out books written by IC members that don't carry titles like Islam Will Kill Us All. The Master Plan by Brian Fishman is great. Salafi-Jihadism: The History of an Idea by Shiraz Maher is also a fascinating read. Islamic inspired terrorism is a much more complicated subject than a young man shouting Allahu Akbar.

Thought of an analogy that might help separate the issues.

Guns are a tool that serves the purpose of its user. Whether it's to take a life or save one for instance. Guns can create a common bond and were important in enforcing order when civilization got a bit rocky. When a person uses a gun to kill a bunch of people, most rationale people blame the person who use a gun in a way that 99.9% of others never would. That person was probably crazy. After all, you know a bunch of people with guns and they would never do that. Hell, you have a gun and you'd never do that!

Replace the word gun in the sentence above, with religion. OH SHI-

For the record, I think religion is pretty silly. I've seen it do good and harm. The good correlates pretty exactly with wealth, health, and opportunity. I wonder if there are places where there is less of that...

How did islam spread into Medina, into Mecca? How did islam spread across northern Africa, throughout the Middle East or into India? Well if you learn about islam you would know that in the first twenty minutes there was always a militaristic side to it. Even before you get past the first two minutes you should be already familiar with the genocide of the Banu Qurayza.

The video doesn't say the environment encourages terrorism, in fact it mentions at least one of the encourager by name, al-Baghdadi.

I understand the difference.

I don't. Could somebody educate me?

Great posts riseagainstrocks.

The racism in this thread by a few is sickening.

Never mind. I actually had to look it up damnit. Thanks for nothing MB, you guys failed me again.

Here we go throwing the word racism out there again. Racism seems to have lost it's meaning nowadays. I forgot America is full of people who roll up in horses with white pointy hats bearing shotguns ready to lynch people they don't like. I guess perfectly mainstream opinions are regarded as racist, which is a shame. Lefties love to make up these so-called "racist" villains out of thin air when there really any to be found as far as I can tell.

And this is coming from a pretty privileged young male Beaner.

The beer I'm drinking doesn't have as high of an alcohol content as ones I've had before. Therefore the beer I'm drinking does not have any alcohol.

There was a time decades ago when racism was absolutely mainstream. And absolutely accepted. I grew up in that time. You call it a shame that it's no longer acceptable?

Really?

Muslim = Terrorist

That's ****ing racism 101. Grow the **** up and learn how to look at the world's problems with complex glasses.

I have many Muslim friends. **** you for stereotyping them.

Nothing personal JTF. These types of attitudes just unnerve me in a very bad way.

This is a very complicated subject. Europe is definitely in a difficult time at the moment. Like most things, the truth is not on the right or left, but somewhere in the middle. There is so much propaganda floating around right now, sometimes it is difficult to identify critically.

I know it's cheesy to quote from seven pages back, but I couldn't let this pass.

https://i1.wp.com/tjomlid.com/wp-con...size=600%2C563

Norway has never even had a terrorist attack commited by a muslim. The 22nd of July attacks were committed by a white islamophobe.

Away from Europe for a second - innit funny how islamophobia has been steadily on the rise since 9/11, and just seems to be getting worse in all of the West? President Bush launched the War on Terror, then invaded Iraq two years later. Since then, the US, in cooperation with NATO, has ruined Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria. Funny how the "War on Terror" has used islamophobia to legitimize war against muslim countries

What are the numbers for 2013-present day?

No it's not :D

:thumb: Great to see a post from PoorOldPo again - and what a relief to see such a balanced statement about Islam in Europe!

There have been Muslims in Europe for something like one and a half thousand years, so in addition to the complex moral issues and statistics of the situation today, there is a long, long back story too. Being unsure or ambivalent about your position is a very sane response imo, although to judge from the posts here, most people have formed an adamant opinion before joining the thread. Perhaps that's why this "debate" has degenerated into slinging mud and statistics at each other.

I guess Chula thinks "Muslim" is a race.

Not to mention nobody said "Muslim = Terrorist"

So what we have is someone too ignorant to build a straw man.

Exactly, lol and it hasn't even been posted.

A post the other day literally said 'I hate religion', but nobody felt the need to say 'there are 5.2bn* followers of religion' or 'so you are saying every religious person does x, y and z', or 'here, look what atheists have done'. But say you hate Islam or even criticise Islam and they will respond with those arguments, as if you are smearing every single Muslim person :D

People who mean well, but are arguing against things that weren't posted. I think Ben Affleck might have stole Chula's log in.

*or however many it is ffs

Don't want to quote all of rostasi's post, but just want to say well argued and written, as ever. As was the post by riseagainstrocks. However...

This is just ridiculous. Wise up Goofle wouldya?
Pot, meet kettle
So we should hate and persecute all steel workers. They're scumbags bent on our destruction. I hear ya.
JTF I hate to break it to you but there is more to racism that white/black you know. What's being spoken of here is most certainly racism, and bigotry and hatred.
You're allowed to hate religion. I hate religion and I would not defend it. What I have a problem with, obviously, is using the fact that someone follows a particular faith to extrapolate from that that they are a potential terrorist, and that their religion should be banned in a country, in this case China, which is what started this all off. Occulthawk says this is not what he's saying, but his posts and his attitude and his anger and his refusal to see both sides of the story betray that. He's a bigot, plain and simple, and wants to impose, through proxy, his bigotry on people he has never met.

lol at thinking he wrote that. All he's done is post the same article three times from the very objective :D Mehdi Hasan and then lifted text from another website. Post number 84 was directly stolen from this article from the Huffington Post: Muslims Are Not Terrorists: A Factual Look at Terrorism and Islam | The Huffington Post

He's been challenged on 'his' claims by Pet Sounds and we await a reply.

Whether you agree with his view or not, Goofle actually attempted to back what he's saying up with a list of terror attacks in 2017 (not going to argue about whether things are missing).

Can you hate Islam without having an issue with the people who identify as Muslim or who follow it (to whatever extent)?

When you say "he", which are you speaking about? I mentioned two, is it rar RAR or rostasi? Anyway, I was not aware of that so will await his reply. In response to your other question, below
Well of course you can. I hate Christianity with a passion but I don't hate anyone who practices it. I should say, I hate the IDEA of it, not necessarily the religion itself. If Christian Fundamentalists started shooting and bombing people I would have a problem with it obviously, but I wouldn't assume everyone who followed Jesus was a terrorist, which is essentially what Hawkboy is saying, nor would I support the intolerance or banning of their religion from any country.

Yes, its history is complex, but what some people are emotionally involved in here is the immediacy of now - the carefully chosen aspects of terrorist attacks that instill an immediate response to shout "ISLAAAAM!!!" and then when it is overwhelmingly shown that religion was not the cause or that the perpetrator wasn't even a Muslim, the dichotomy apparently doesn't matter when their position is one born of rage and emotional instability sometimes coupled with an outside social influence that's appallingly ignorant or manipulative - especially when its prey is the under-developed prefrontal cortex of a young person. You are right tho that statistics can't penetrate a mind so mired in such an emotional quagmire. For example, if you tell them that in 2013, there were 152 terror attacks in Europe and that only two of them were “religiously motivated,” while 84 were predicated upon ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs, the comeback (as we've seen here) is along the lines of "Hey, how about after 2013!" Even if you were lucky enough to have someone put together a lock-tight investigation that included 2016 (which would be a challenge), they would still state that you're still 4 months short - 'cause, you know, that's when terrorism really picked up - or some such nonsense. Take a flat-earther in a boat around the Earth and, at best, you'll convince him that the Earth is cylindrical. It's easy to give up.

Yes, TH, those weren't my words. I was presenting online info from various sources - something that you have to do here because, apparently, the onus is on the sensible people here to disapprove nonsense from others too lazy to actually do the research themselves. Better to go along with your "clan" of folks I suppose.

Yes, I saw Goofle's post. The only "scroll-wheel breaking" done was when I was trying to find relevancy.

Also, Pet Sounds wasn't "challenging" me on my post of info.

#1: as I said above about recent statistics...
#2: sources are all over the Internet - even sending some of you links won't dissuade you -
there's always a number of runaround excuses devoid of facts that follow.
#3: apparently 47 years (and more, not less) are in dispute
#4: EXACTLY!!!
#5: so if the numbers are not surprising, then what's the big scary bugaboo?

Nah, no one seems to respond to my challenges these days. Not sure if they're scared, unsure of how to attack it, agree, or just don't want to.

But some posters seem to skip over the part where I directly challenge their sources or assertions and continue to "debate" with 'U' 'NO U'. Oh well, happy to provide ammunition to those who agree and want to use snippets in other arguments. Typing up thoughts on these topics is a nice break from technical audit reviews...

Racism is also defined as a prejudice against a particular ethnic group.

And ya, the subtext beneath a lot of the posts in this thread is that Islam/Muslim = terrorist.

Don't point the finger at me as being the dense one here.

Religion has nothing to do with prejudice by ethnicity.

Wha? Muslim is considered an ethnic group.Plenty of people are racist against Muslims - ignorantly so though.

Then why was immigration the very first thing you brought up?

You're forgetting the middle east (a predominately Muslim region)
Iraq, Afghanistan and after 2015, Pakistan are the top three most dangerous country's in terms of terrorism.

Iraq: 2,418
Afghanistan: 1,708
Pakistan: 1,009

Muslim opinion polls;
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...ion-polls.aspx

that website is pretty ****ty