Cuthbert

I watched a talk with an Egyptian doctor and ex Jihadi where he makes that exact argument.

The video is here.



Watch it it's good.

Blank.

Yeah, and there was never evidence to back this up versus a bunch of people who are sick of people being murdered by extremists. You're taking a complex issue and over simplifying it and in the process alienating a group of people that feel alienated already.

Goofle

The complexity of "why" is kinda trumped by the simplicity of, you know, "actual real world deaths".

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OccultHawk

Nobody on here would want a Muslim majority voting block in their country. Accepting that as an obvious truth at some point every non-muslim is going to ultimately be Islamaphobic.

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Mindy

could be some propaganda youre trying to get me to watch


thanks anyways

i did watch a video on youtube that was saying that a lot of people are trying to go to europe because their old country sucked.
so rather stay where they are and make a better life there, they are cramming into europe?

OccultHawk

Where are these Muslims with whom you would be comfortable letting them select your next government?

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Frownland

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riseagainstrocks

For the thousandth time, people are not solely their religious belief. You keep saying 'Muslim' like it's the entirety of their identity. Those select few that are, yes, they present a problem. Thank god/allah/science they are a vanishingly small minority. Need a point of comparison with white people? The Bible bans: pre-marital sex, menstruating women in the camp, poly-blend fabric, being jealous of your neighbor, insulting your parents/elders, marriage with members of certain ethnic groups, sharing atheistic or agnostic ideas with children. All of these are punishable by death. The Bible allows for: genocide of non-Jewish ethnic groups, the selling of your children into bondage, [men] taking as many wives as you can provide for, [women] being subservient in all things to your husband, the owning of fellow humans, war against people who don't believe in your god. Most of these actions brought immediately reward from God. Now how many Christians break those bans and reject those proscriptions? 99.9% of them, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE MORE THAN THE RELIGION THEY IDENTIFY WITH

I will happily go blow for blow between the holy books for horrific atrocities and laudable aspirations. You don't live in a Muslim country. You probably don't have many if any Muslim friends. Your ignorance of the way people practice Islam leads you to apply the the actions of the most extreme to everyone.

Rostasi, elphenor, and others have put forth both logic and evidence to support the position that Islamic inspired terrorism is a warping of societal forces to pressure and trick young, dumb men into killing themselves for a higher power. But actually it's the political ambition of these leaders that drives them. We've pointed you to books to check out, books written by experts, books quoting the writings of bin Laden, Zarqawi, Zawahiri, al-Bahgdadi, etc. where they lay out their SECULAR plan for EARTHLY power modeled on religious and societal laws that have existed for over a thousand years. Easier to mold an existing system to your ends than creating a new one from scratch.

But you and others here are convinced that behind every smiling Muslim face is a man, woman, or child that can't wait to rip out your throat in the name of Allah. That's why you're a bigot.

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OccultHawk

So what country did y'all come up with?

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riseagainstrocks

K, let's go through this one more time.

Muslims are not a homogeneous bloc. We have immigrants from every Muslim country on earth. And with maybe a dozen exceptions, these 3-4 MILLION Muslims are every bit as American as you and I.

If you're asking, 'should we import 100 million Muslims from say, Indonesia, and have them pick our government?', well no. Because Indonesia has a centuries old history of autocracy and military juntas. So the problem is one of political values not fully aligning with what we champion in the West.

If you're asking, 'should practicing Muslims get a vote in a democracy?' I'd point to Pakistan and India as prominent examples where they not only vote, but they regularly elect women and religious minorities to high office. Don't get me wrong, Pakistan has its problems, but as I've said again and again, THEY ARE POLITICAL. The tribal politics of Northern Waziristan, the support for Sunni (and sometimes Shia) militias in Iraq and Afghanistan - such as the Taliban and the Haqqani Network, the proxy skirmishes with Iran - political conflicts. India too has real social problems. There are ethnic splits, caste splits, and 300 odd million subsistence farmers. But these problems come back to man's tribal nature and, shockingly, the overwhelming majority live in peace with their neighbors despite their differences. It's almost like America, except hotter and with more food that upsets my stomach...

But please, feel free to skip every argument I've made in this thread and continue to expose your critical ignorance of the political realities in these countries.

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