PoorOldPo

This is a very complicated subject. Europe is definitely in a difficult time at the moment. Like most things, the truth is not on the right or left, but somewhere in the middle. There is so much propaganda floating around right now, sometimes it is difficult to identify critically.

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Isbjørn

I know it's cheesy to quote from seven pages back, but I couldn't let this pass.



Norway has never even had a terrorist attack commited by a muslim. The 22nd of July attacks were committed by a white islamophobe.

Away from Europe for a second - innit funny how islamophobia has been steadily on the rise since 9/11, and just seems to be getting worse in all of the West? President Bush launched the War on Terror, then invaded Iraq two years later. Since then, the US, in cooperation with NATO, has ruined Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria. Funny how the "War on Terror" has used islamophobia to legitimize war against muslim countries

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Cuthbert

What are the numbers for 2013-present day?

Cuthbert

No it's not

Lisnaholic

Great to see a post from PoorOldPo again - and what a relief to see such a balanced statement about Islam in Europe!

There have been Muslims in Europe for something like one and a half thousand years, so in addition to the complex moral issues and statistics of the situation today, there is a long, long back story too. Being unsure or ambivalent about your position is a very sane response imo, although to judge from the posts here, most people have formed an adamant opinion before joining the thread. Perhaps that's why this "debate" has degenerated into slinging mud and statistics at each other.

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OccultHawk

I guess Chula thinks "Muslim" is a race.

Not to mention nobody said "Muslim = Terrorist"

So what we have is someone too ignorant to build a straw man.

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Cuthbert

Exactly, lol and it hasn't even been posted.

A post the other day literally said 'I hate religion', but nobody felt the need to say 'there are 5.2bn* followers of religion' or 'so you are saying every religious person does x, y and z', or 'here, look what atheists have done'. But say you hate Islam or even criticise Islam and they will respond with those arguments, as if you are smearing every single Muslim person

People who mean well, but are arguing against things that weren't posted. I think Ben Affleck might have stole Chula's log in.

*or however many it is ffs

Trollheart

Don't want to quote all of rostasi's post, but just want to say well argued and written, as ever. As was the post by riseagainstrocks. However...

This is just ridiculous. Wise up Goofle wouldya?
Pot, meet kettle
So we should hate and persecute all steel workers. They're scumbags bent on our destruction. I hear ya.
JTF I hate to break it to you but there is more to racism that white/black you know. What's being spoken of here is most certainly racism, and bigotry and hatred.
You're allowed to hate religion. I hate religion and I would not defend it. What I have a problem with, obviously, is using the fact that someone follows a particular faith to extrapolate from that that they are a potential terrorist, and that their religion should be banned in a country, in this case China, which is what started this all off. Occulthawk says this is not what he's saying, but his posts and his attitude and his anger and his refusal to see both sides of the story betray that. He's a bigot, plain and simple, and wants to impose, through proxy, his bigotry on people he has never met.

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Cuthbert

lol at thinking he wrote that. All he's done is post the same article three times from the very objective Mehdi Hasan and then lifted text from another website. Post number 84 was directly stolen from this article from the Huffington Post: Muslims Are Not Terrorists: A Factual Look at Terrorism and Islam | The Huffington Post

He's been challenged on 'his' claims by Pet Sounds and we await a reply.

Whether you agree with his view or not, Goofle actually attempted to back what he's saying up with a list of terror attacks in 2017 (not going to argue about whether things are missing).

Can you hate Islam without having an issue with the people who identify as Muslim or who follow it (to whatever extent)?

Trollheart

When you say "he", which are you speaking about? I mentioned two, is it rar RAR or rostasi? Anyway, I was not aware of that so will await his reply. In response to your other question, below
Well of course you can. I hate Christianity with a passion but I don't hate anyone who practices it. I should say, I hate the IDEA of it, not necessarily the religion itself. If Christian Fundamentalists started shooting and bombing people I would have a problem with it obviously, but I wouldn't assume everyone who followed Jesus was a terrorist, which is essentially what Hawkboy is saying, nor would I support the intolerance or banning of their religion from any country.

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