Science!

**Marie Monday** · 12-07-2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't really agree, let people identify however they want, the only people all that concerned with it are in total bad faith anyway

DWV sounds like he belongs on /pol/, "attack helicopters" whatever

People should be able to be whatever they want, that's very important. Identifying is just a label, and that is important too to some extent, because as we can't escape these labels everyone needs to be able to choose a label that they're comfortable with. But in the end gender being made into a big deal in our culture is what caused all the harm, with different character traits, capabilities, interests, clothes, etc being attached to gender.
Say that a complex system of many genders was accepted as part of our culture. Then navigating this system correctly, gendering everyone in the right way etc, would mean that it would be a big part of our lives. Imagine how much occupation with the concept of gender that would require, which only validates the old mistake of making gender such a big deal. In the end we want people not to care about people's gender; right now it's one of the first things we (try to) register about someone, and in this hypothetical case it would probably be the first question we ask when we meet someone, after someone's name.
My hope is that by acknowledging a third gender and the fact that these things are a spectrum, everyone will drift towards acknowledging that they are somewhere on the spectrum instead of at the end, and things will become less of a big deal, just like what is happening with sexuality. I see a lot of teenagers around me being like: 'I might be a bit bisexual, I don't really know where I am on the spectrum and I don't really care' and so people make less of a fuss about sexuality, I like that. I did not think this comparison through though, I'm just writing as things pop up into my head, so I might not be satisfied with this whole analysis in a few minutes

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

pretty great chance you've already been attracted to women with XY chromosomes (I mean this is not the hardline way to determine sex anyway but for the sake of argument)

the biological aspect meant nothing to you in identifying them as female

Very true

**Marie Monday** · 12-07-2019, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

but why would we then make it three genders?

Well, because the more genders, the more we stray away from having no genders at all, or gender being unimportant. And I suppose that the more complex these genders become, the more things get attributed to gender (or the more it validates that so many things get attributed to gender). But you're right that gender is already a very big deal, maybe so much so that it wouldn't really make a difference. That was the main thing that bothered me about my argument too. Also, right now I don't see any point in having more than three genders, but I don't know much about other genders, so upon learning more I might change my mind. My opinion on gender is not rigid and mostly based on my own experience, so I'm very willing to learn more. Is there any other gender you can use as an example?
And of course I will always respect the way people identfy

Lucem Ferre · 12-07-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

but the dudes here proclaiming that gender is bunk all dress strictly adhering to a male dress code (myself more or less included)

Yeah, that's probably only because it's so encoded into us that typical male attire is what we feel comfortable in. In the end that's all this gender stuff is about, helping people get comfortable with themselves. Doesn't matter if it's typical or different.

**Marie Monday** · 12-07-2019, 09:51 AM

Yes! And the difficult thing is that we can try do that in two opposite ways: by expanding or diminishing our concept of gender. What I hesitate about is which way is the best

DwnWthVwls · 12-07-2019, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

pretty great chance you've already been attracted to women with XY chromosomes (I mean this is not the hardline way to determine sex anyway but for the sake of argument)

the biological aspect meant nothing to you in identifying them as female

I just said that its entirely possible for me to be attracted to biological men who identify as women until they get naked and have a penis and i no longer want to have sex with them. Which is why I questioned your gender mattering when it comes to “having the sex” comment.

DwnWthVwls · 12-07-2019, 10:53 AM

I don't see how.. Its a 3 step process:

1) Do you have a personality I like?
2) Am I attracted to you?
3) Do you have a vagina?

Can you put me in a situation where someones gender would stop or push me into having sex with them?

**Marie Monday** · 12-07-2019, 11:47 AM

Yeah apparently it works different for different people; I am attracted to women regardless of whether they have a vagina or a penis. To me the gender alone is what determines my sexual orientation

DwnWthVwls · 12-07-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

that's all you

I just thought saying you wouldn't have sex with a man in regards to a woman with a penis demonstrates the very problem with our language as it is

I wasnt saying that to take a shot at gender, i was using the terms scientifically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarieMarie

Yeah apparently it works different for different people; I am attracted to women regardless of whether they have a vagina or a penis. To me the gender alone is what determines my sexual orientation

So youre bi not a lesbian? Sexual orientation references the biological sex not the gender, but i believe you said you are a lesbian.

**Marie Monday** · 12-07-2019, 12:25 PM

I always considered sexual orientation as aplying to gender as that makes more sense, I think. But yes, I suppose that if it referred to sex you could call me bisexual, but that would give a wrong impression without explanation

DwnWthVwls · 12-07-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarieMarie

I always considered sexual orientation as aplying to gender as that makes more sense, I think. But yes, I suppose that if it referred to sex you could call me bisexual, but that would give a wrong impression without explanation

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if I say I'm attracted to women regardless of genitals, I'm not bisexual

yeah you are.. get over it. Does that bother you?