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Old 04-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #411 (permalink)
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Saying that you can't know that free will exists is pointless. On a purely logical level of course you can't know anymore than you can know that god exists or that we're not living in the Matrix. You can hold an agnostic view in an academic sense but you're still going to believe one or the other because that's simply how minds work. You can't hold a purely agnostic view. Either you believe in free will or you don't.
The majority of the arguments for the existence of god can easily be countered in a falsifiable manner. I don't see any of that scientific rigor behind your position.

I also don't agree with the assertion that free will can only exist if it's absolute. I also vehemently disagree with the assertion that free will can only exist if decision-making is entirely random because that would be a form of determinism in itself. I've explained this to you several times, so if you don't get it you're clearly just not there yet.

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Saying that you can't know that free will exists or doesn't exist is like prefacing your opinion that X musical artist with "In my opinion". It doesn't add anything to the discussion. It just wastes time. You can believe that musical taste is subjective but you're still going to believe that an artist is either good or bad.
The fact that you have to rely so heavily on false analogies, false equivalencies, strawmanning, and goalpost moving to support your position should tell you that your position isn't as concrete as you're presenting it to be.
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Last edited by Frownland; 04-12-2019 at 12:46 PM. Reason: \
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:52 PM   #412 (permalink)
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It's not a paradox. If everyone stopped believing in free will that would influence how we view and run society. It wouldn't be a choice, it would simply be emergent, but it would quite possibly result in a society that runs on a more accurate view of how the world works.
No, it's a paradox. The whole concept is riddled with paradoxes from both sides.

There's a huge difference between 'I believe' and 'I know' which is what is being argued against. OH said that he knows free will doesn't exist because it's proven. We can argue over the merit over it just don't act like merit over it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:56 PM   #413 (permalink)
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The majority of the arguments for the existence of god can easily be countered in a falsifiable manner. I don't see any of that scientific rigor behind your position.

I also don't agree with the assertion that free will can only exist if it's absolute. I also vehemently disagree with the assertion that free will can only exist if decision-making is entirely random because that would be a form of determinism in itself. I've explained this to you several times, so if you don't get it you're clearly just not there yet.
We've both made this point several times. Never seemed to be acknowledged.

Edit: You can argue that choice is predicated on the influence of consequence. Where a rock being thrown is only reacting to the past, a conscious being making a choice is reacting to what it predicts to be the future.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-12-2019, 12:59 PM   #414 (permalink)
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Im still waiting for batlord to tell me the default position for the claim “free will doesnt exist”. He seems to thhink taking the opposite side of the claim is the default so i guess free will does exist.
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:29 PM   #415 (permalink)
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Seriously though, they should stop saying "I chose to" and start saying "I was destined to".
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-12-2019, 02:25 PM   #416 (permalink)
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Plenty of crackheads probably felt they could fly until they couldn't. Why on earth would you think how you "feel" is in any way meaningful. I think OH is right and you're simply "not there" yet.
Took you long enough
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:29 PM   #417 (permalink)
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Took you long enough
It took the universe long enough to bring him to that point, you mean?
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-12-2019, 02:50 PM   #418 (permalink)
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the gangs almost all here. Where is grindy?
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:51 PM   #419 (permalink)
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the gangs almost all here. Where is grindy?
I don't know, he isn't destined to be here though.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-12-2019, 07:30 PM   #420 (permalink)
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