Science!

Lucem Ferre · 04-12-2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

I scoff at people who claim destiny as if it were a conscious entity or magical force guiding their lives like God or astrology. And "I don't know" isn't a reasonable stance to stop at because it ignores the reality that believing one and not the other influences how society views itself and their actions resulting from that, and being agnostic is tantamount to believing in free will because you're just going to accept the status quo which is belief in free will. All the circle jerk rationalist garbage in the world isn't going to make you woke.

But destiny wouldn't be a 'magical' force since it would be natural. Same with free will if it existed.

If anything it's YOU who are trying to sound 'woke' with the 'I know free will doesn't exist' bull****. And, again, it's calling things 'magical' or throwing preconceived notions of what I believe being you using ad hominem to cover up the fact that you don't know because you can't take the fact that you don't know. It's the equivalent of me claiming that you don't want to believe in free will because it makes the self imposed doom of humanity more digestible if you think it was destiny rather than choice.

I don't believe in free will. I've said that already on here plenty of times. I'm not going to claim that I know free will doesn't exist and I'm not going to pretend it's a fact to fit my own beliefs. That's just grossly narcissistic and masturbatory to claim that you know, it's fact and that anybody that believes in free will just wants to feel 'magical' or 'isn't there yet'.

The Batlord · 04-12-2019, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Kinda been my question for a while now mate.

Which you contradict by saying things like "I feel like I have a choice between picking up and not picking up a piece of paper" like some damn Christian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

But destiny wouldn't be a 'magical' force since it would be natural. Same with free will if it existed.

Okay?

**Frownland** · 04-12-2019, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

Which you contradict by saying things like "I feel like I have a choice between picking up and not picking up a piece of paper" like some damn Christian.

I never said that. I said that the option to do both exists because they are physically possible to perform.

DwnWthVwls · 04-12-2019, 12:26 PM

Do you believe free will is possible at all? Not for humans, just in the general sense. Can an all knowing all powerful entity experience free will?

Lucem Ferre · 04-12-2019, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I never said that. I said that the option to do both exists because they are physically possible to perform.

Not being able to change the past is obvious evidence that you don't decide the future, duh Frownland.

Lucem Ferre · 04-12-2019, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Do you believe free will is possible at all? Not for humans, just in the general sense. Can an all knowing all powerful entity experience free will?

By their definition it has to be something that acts out of pure randomness that has no cause and effect relationship to it's choices. Something where literally nothing it does matters. (not in a philosophical way) In fact, perhaps it couldn't even be conscious of what it's doing.

DwnWthVwls · 04-12-2019, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

I scoff at people who claim destiny as if it were a conscious entity or magical force guiding their lives like God or astrology. And "I don't know" isn't a reasonable stance to stop at because it ignores the reality that believing one and not the other influences how society views itself and their actions resulting from that, and being agnostic is tantamount to believing in free will because you're just going to accept the status quo which is belief in free will. All the circle jerk rationalist garbage in the world isn't going to make you woke.

This is all poopoo that reminds me of the matrix argument. It doesnt matter if we actually have free will. We experience the world as if we do and govern our existence based on the general human experience. Even if everyone became woke it wouldnt change anything because according to you we are literally incapable of making a choice to change our behavior. Thats quite the paradox youve created in your little woke bubble.

The Batlord · 04-12-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I never said that. I said that the option to do both exists because they are physically possible to perform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Do you believe free will is possible at all? Not for humans, just in the general sense. Can an all knowing all powerful entity experience free will?

Saying that you can't know that free will exists is pointless. On a purely logical level of course you can't know anymore than you can know that god exists or that we're not living in the Matrix. You can hold an agnostic view in an academic sense but you're still going to believe one or the other because that's simply how minds work. You can't hold a purely agnostic view. Either you believe in free will or you don't.

Saying that you can't know that free will exists or doesn't exist is like prefacing your opinion that X musical artist with "In my opinion". It doesn't add anything to the discussion. It just wastes time. You can believe that musical taste is subjective but you're still going to believe that an artist is either good or bad.

The Batlord · 04-12-2019, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

This is all poopoo that reminds me of the matrix argument. It doesnt matter if we actually have free will. We experience the world as if we do and govern our existence based on the general human experience. Even if everyone became woke it wouldnt change anything because according to you we are literally incapable of making a choice to change our behavior. Thats quite the paradox youve created in your little woke bubble.

It's not a paradox. If everyone stopped believing in free will that would influence how we view and run society. It wouldn't be a choice, it would simply be emergent, but it would quite possibly result in a society that runs on a more accurate view of how the world works.

DwnWthVwls · 04-12-2019, 12:41 PM

I believe i dont know if free will does or doesnt exist and dont care one way or the other. Prove me wrong. Ive never even thought about it until this discussion came up.