Science!

DwnWthVwls · 10-28-2019, 08:08 AM

DwnWthVwls · 11-24-2019, 06:46 AM

3Blue Meets Numberphile.. woohoo

**Frownland** · 12-04-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I dont think there is enough science for either side to be making claims about the truth of the matter [of gender identity]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

They only recently stopped considering it a mental illness so I'm guessing there is enough research to inform that decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Yeah, ill give it some time for more research. There are plenty of examples of ****ty science being used to set standards for non-scientific reasons. If you have some research or a meta-analysis to link id be interested in reading it. I didnt know this was a thing.

Taking this to the appropriate thread because it's an interesting subject.

Outside of the fact that nonbinary and transgender people exist, the strongest evidence that I've seen against traditional gender roles as a natural product of sex comes from looking at the big picture. Just to get ahead of the classic kneejerk responses to the subject, I'd like to clarify that this is only about psychological differences between sexes, since physical expression of sex is a no brainer that is already covered by identifying sex. Basically, the range of psychological differences between sexes is insignificant compared to the range of psychological differences that are present within the sexes themselves. The drastic differences between expression and identity of femininity/masculinity/personality across cultures shows how much social influence is a confounding factor in gender expression and identity as well. Combine those two and psychological differences between sexes are minuscule in comparison to person to person psychological differences.

I think that identifying sex is realistic and important in medical situations but gender doesn't really exist beyond that. There doesn't really seem to be any standard that people should rely besides for being themselves and a lot of the time that will fall outside of traditional Western notions of femininity or masculinity. Either way, it doesn't hurt to be respectful of people's preferences.

DwnWthVwls · 12-04-2019, 01:43 PM

Everyone is essentially their own gender with a mix of traits across the full spectrum, which makes this idea of gender identity silly(though I still respect preferences cause why not). However, wtf do I know? The brain is so complicated and it's not a subject im interested in enough to read any of the literature.

**Marie Monday** · 12-04-2019, 02:20 PM

I view the modern ideas about gender identity as a compromise between the ideal idea that everyone is their own specific gender and we should just get rid of the whole concept, and the old fashioned habit of dividing the world into two genders. It allows a place for people who don't fit within those two genders

Mindy · 12-04-2019, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Taking this to the appropriate thread because it's an interesting subject.

Outside of the fact that nonbinary and transgender people exist, the strongest evidence that I've seen against traditional gender roles as a natural product of sex comes from looking at the big picture. Just to get ahead of the classic kneejerk responses to the subject, I'd like to clarify that this is only about psychological differences between sexes, since physical expression of sex is a no brainer that is already covered by identifying sex. Basically, the range of psychological differences between sexes is insignificant compared to the range of psychological differences that are present within the sexes themselves. The drastic differences between expression and identity of femininity/masculinity/personality across cultures shows how much social influence is a confounding factor in gender expression and identity as well. Combine those two and psychological differences between sexes are minuscule in comparison to person to person psychological differences.

I think that identifying sex is realistic and important in medical situations but gender doesn't really exist beyond that. There doesn't really seem to be any standard that people should rely besides for being themselves and a lot of the time that will fall outside of traditional Western notions of femininity or masculinity. Either way, it doesn't hurt to be respectful of people's preferences.

good post

The Batlord · 12-04-2019, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

could be the case if gender were not incredible in how integral it is to the way people relate to each other in society

Doesn't necessarily negate DWV's point but it does make it a utopian ideal that isn't usable in modern society.

The Batlord · 12-04-2019, 08:19 PM

Cause most people probably don't care enough to question how they've been assigned in the same way most people conform to their cultures.

**Frownland** · 12-04-2019, 08:26 PM

elphenor's a member of the social influence doesn't exist club now?

The Batlord · 12-04-2019, 08:32 PM

Do most people really only want to listen to the pop music they have shoved down their throats but not the same pop music as past generations or any other form of music? No they just imbibe it as a cultural badge that allows them to easily mingle with their peers. I couldn't tell you what the gender truth of humanity is since it's such a confusing morass that it's impossible to tell where you begin and societal construct ends but I imagine if all of Earth developed amnesia and became sexually monomorphic we wouldn't re-invent gender as it now exists.

12-04-2019, 08:26 PM	#579 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	elphenor's a member of the social influence doesn't exist club now? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x