But destiny wouldn't be a 'magical' force since it would be natural. Same with free will if it existed.

If anything it's YOU who are trying to sound 'woke' with the 'I know free will doesn't exist' bull****. And, again, it's calling things 'magical' or throwing preconceived notions of what I believe being you using ad hominem to cover up the fact that you don't know because you can't take the fact that you don't know. It's the equivalent of me claiming that you don't want to believe in free will because it makes the self imposed doom of humanity more digestible if you think it was destiny rather than choice.

I don't believe in free will. I've said that already on here plenty of times. I'm not going to claim that I know free will doesn't exist and I'm not going to pretend it's a fact to fit my own beliefs. That's just grossly narcissistic and masturbatory to claim that you know, it's fact and that anybody that believes in free will just wants to feel 'magical' or 'isn't there yet'.

Which you contradict by saying things like "I feel like I have a choice between picking up and not picking up a piece of paper" like some damn Christian.

Okay?

I never said that. I said that the option to do both exists because they are physically possible to perform.

Do you believe free will is possible at all? Not for humans, just in the general sense. Can an all knowing all powerful entity experience free will?

Not being able to change the past is obvious evidence that you don't decide the future, duh Frownland.

By their definition it has to be something that acts out of pure randomness that has no cause and effect relationship to it's choices. Something where literally nothing it does matters. (not in a philosophical way) In fact, perhaps it couldn't even be conscious of what it's doing.

This is all poopoo that reminds me of the matrix argument. It doesnt matter if we actually have free will. We experience the world as if we do and govern our existence based on the general human experience. Even if everyone became woke it wouldnt change anything because according to you we are literally incapable of making a choice to change our behavior. Thats quite the paradox youve created in your little woke bubble.

Saying that you can't know that free will exists is pointless. On a purely logical level of course you can't know anymore than you can know that god exists or that we're not living in the Matrix. You can hold an agnostic view in an academic sense but you're still going to believe one or the other because that's simply how minds work. You can't hold a purely agnostic view. Either you believe in free will or you don't.

Saying that you can't know that free will exists or doesn't exist is like prefacing your opinion that X musical artist with "In my opinion". It doesn't add anything to the discussion. It just wastes time. You can believe that musical taste is subjective but you're still going to believe that an artist is either good or bad.

It's not a paradox. If everyone stopped believing in free will that would influence how we view and run society. It wouldn't be a choice, it would simply be emergent, but it would quite possibly result in a society that runs on a more accurate view of how the world works.

I believe i dont know if free will does or doesnt exist and dont care one way or the other. Prove me wrong. Ive never even thought about it until this discussion came up.

The majority of the arguments for the existence of god can easily be countered in a falsifiable manner. I don't see any of that scientific rigor behind your position.

I also don't agree with the assertion that free will can only exist if it's absolute. I also vehemently disagree with the assertion that free will can only exist if decision-making is entirely random because that would be a form of determinism in itself. I've explained this to you several times, so if you don't get it you're clearly just not there yet.

The fact that you have to rely so heavily on false analogies, false equivalencies, strawmanning, and goalpost moving to support your position should tell you that your position isn't as concrete as you're presenting it to be.

No, it's a paradox. The whole concept is riddled with paradoxes from both sides.

There's a huge difference between 'I believe' and 'I know' which is what is being argued against. OH said that he knows free will doesn't exist because it's proven. We can argue over the merit over it just don't act like merit over it.

We've both made this point several times. Never seemed to be acknowledged.

Edit: You can argue that choice is predicated on the influence of consequence. Where a rock being thrown is only reacting to the past, a conscious being making a choice is reacting to what it predicts to be the future.

Im still waiting for batlord to tell me the default position for the claim “free will doesnt exist”. He seems to thhink taking the opposite side of the claim is the default so i guess free will does exist.

Seriously though, they should stop saying "I chose to" and start saying "I was destined to".

Took you long enough

It took the universe long enough to bring him to that point, you mean?

the gangs almost all here. Where is grindy?

I don't know, he isn't destined to be here though.

No selfies in science thread please.

:wave:

Scientists Restore Some Function In The Brains Of Dead Pigs (suids, not cops).

^^^^^^ That was very cool.

Dear scientists

Please explain this

Elon hopes global broadband satellite internet network can help fund SpaceX

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/15/musk...t-capital.html

Hannah is <3. Cool video.

Yeah, she's awesome.

Of course human anatomy and physiology/ biology is a science

We're not doing your homework for you, mister. Nice try though.

NSFWish

Aerogel

Boooo!

You got something against Red Shift?

The wavelength of light as its source moves toward you or away you from turns from blue to red. It’s called red shift when you’re looking at stars. If the star looks red it’s moving away from earth. Sound vibrations do the same thing by compacting and then stretching out. That’s why sirens sound how they sound depending on where the ambulance is.