What Did President Trump Do Now?

djchameleon · 04-28-2017, 11:48 PM

This example and your welfare one seems like you are basing it off on anecdotes that piss you off from personal experience with knowing people in those situations. I agree with you to an extent but people make mistakes and they don't deserve to be starving and homeless because they fucked up.

DwnWthVwls · 04-28-2017, 11:50 PM

Which brings us back to the original comment I made that kicked this whole thing off (as I already admitted I stated in a rather pissy way towards Chula/Elph because they seem to think the government and the rich should be responsible for everything we screw up. Then, Chula took it as a personal attack).

Where do you draw the line? At what point should people be held accountable for the fuck ups THEY created? It is unreasonable to expect the government to fix ALL our problems, there has to be some accountability.

djchameleon · 04-28-2017, 11:54 PM

Why is it unreasonable when you are constantly paying into the system through taxes? I don't feel like there is a line or that one needs to exist especially when you are paying into said system all your life.

Where do you think the line should be drawn and what do you think should be done with the people that have crossed said line? Let them suffer and die?

DwnWthVwls · 04-28-2017, 11:57 PM

Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:

Quote:

It's not my responsibility or the governments to assist people who willfully contribute nothing to society

It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

Edit: Those taxes they are paying are being used for things they are a part of. You sound like my parents who complain they have to pay taxes that go towards the public school even though they dont use it, completely ignoring the fact they benefitted from the same tax when they were in school.

As for your second question, i thought i made it clear where i draw the line. If youre in a position to better your situation and do not do it that is where the line gets drawn (assuming of course the opportunity is legal, moral, constitutional, etc.). Nothing gets "done" to those people. I dont have all the answers and the Frown quote above highlights one of the major difficulties we have to overcome. As for dying? Thats a bit hyperbolic dont you think? (1) i am all for universal healthcare (2) if dying isnt motivation to improve your situation then what is? If you care that little about your life then bailing you out probably wont change that.

Thelonious Monkey · 04-29-2017, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:

It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

well **** you too, buddy

djchameleon · 04-29-2017, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Why isn't it unreasonable? You're not paying into those system so you can be some jerkoff that can make every bad decision you want and be carried. As I already said:

It's a two way street. Shit in, shit out. If you're a selfish fuck that doesn't contribute to society then you don't deserve any of it's benefits. And AGAIN, don't mistake this for people who are born/fall into shit that they have no control over.. Notice the bolded.

Edit: Those taxes they are paying are being used for things they are a part of. You sound like my parents who complain they have to pay taxes that go towards the public school even though they dont use it, completely ignoring the fact they benefitted from the same tax when they were in school.

As for your second question, i thought i made it clear where i draw the line. If youre in a position to better your situation and do not do it that is where the line gets drawn (assuming of course the opportunity is legal, moral, constitutional, etc.). Nothing gets "done" to those people. I dont have all the answers and the Frown quote above highlights one of the major difficulties we have to overcome. As for dying? Thats a bit hyperbolic dont you think? (1) i am all for universal healthcare (2) if dying isnt motivation to improve your situation then what is? If you care that little about your life then bailing you out probably wont change that.

My point is that at one point in time they were contributing to society enough so that they are able to qualify for said benefits.

I am not like your parents at all. I know those type of people that want to dedicate where tax money is spent and whom it goes to which sounds exactly like what you are saying. You are trying to say who does and doesn't deserve your tax dollars.

I feel like you are under the assumption that people can just forever live off Welfare without doing anything. Case workers are quick to cut people off for the slightest things. Not actively looking for work or attending the work sites that they get sent to. Not filling out certain paperwork in time. Social workers feel like they are the gate keepers to people's lives and the minute they don't feel like the person deserves it or they are committing fraud they get cut off. They have your same mentality. There isn't anything wrong with that because those benefits are meant to be temporary.

DwnWthVwls · 04-29-2017, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Personal Debt is a massive issue in this country and it isn't explained as simply as "spending beyond your means"

contributing factors are:

1. Declining and stagnating wages
2. Rising costs of living
3. Our insane private healthcare system (number 1 cause of bankruptcy)
4. Our commodity culture and the billions spent by financial institutions and producers on advertising to convince people to buy on credit (our economy depends on it)

5. Irresponsible spending
6. Lack of financial priorities

Theres not only 4 factors, but youd sooner die than ever admit we can be part of our own problems.

Held accountable = responsible for solving their problems without goverment assistance.

DwnWthVwls · 04-29-2017, 10:25 AM

Then they can't, and secondary sources like non-profit, family, go fund me, and volunteer organizations step in. Expecting the government to do it all is not realistic and quite unfair/entitled.

DwnWthVwls · 04-29-2017, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

My point is that at one point in time they were contributing to society enough so that they are able to qualify for said benefits.

I am not like your parents at all. I know those type of people that want to dedicate where tax money is spent and whom it goes to which sounds exactly like what you are saying. You are trying to say who does and doesn't deserve your tax dollars.

I feel like you are under the assumption that people can just forever live off Welfare without doing anything. Case workers are quick to cut people off for the slightest things. Not actively looking for work or attending the work sites that they get sent to. Not filling out certain paperwork in time. Social workers feel like they are the gate keepers to people's lives and the minute they don't feel like the person deserves it or they are committing fraud they get cut off. They have your same mentality. There isn't anything wrong with that because those benefits are meant to be temporary.

and my point is they were benefiting from the taxes they paid they're entire life, from infrastructure to education. I'm not saying take away their social security or options to apply for aid. I'm saying it's not the responsibility of the government to help every single person under every circumstance, but Chula/elph seem to think it is.

I'm not assuming anything about welfare, it was just an example. The bolded seems contradictory, youre arguing against my mentality and then saying there isn't anything wrong with it. Which is it?

DwnWthVwls · 04-29-2017, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Expecting charity to be able to do it is naive

People

Would

Starve

Study American history prior to welfare it wasn't pretty

So we have government assistance and tons of charity, and we still have a problem, and yet you think it's somehow not any fault of our own or that we can't make better decisions to improve our situation? And if you agree, than why on earth should we not be responsible for those things?