What Did President Trump Do Now?

Isbjørn · 04-13-2017, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

lol

Our biology wouldn't back that up. Greed is about as inherent as the need for sleep. I suppose you can achieve that through a combination of huge welfare programs and good old capitalism, but that isn't communism.

Capitalism plus huge welfare programs equals social democracy, but that's not what I'm proposing. What are you getting at?

Also, on what do you base your claims about "human nature"? If they can't be backed up, then they're nothing more than ideologically based assumptions, unfit for political discussion. Common sense doesn't cut it.

But pretty soon we're going to have to move this to another thread.

Trollheart · 04-13-2017, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isbjørn

The Democratic Party and the GOP are both right-wing. Labelling Hillary Clinton as "left-wing" makes the term completely meaningless.

So the US has two right-wing parties? I don't get that.

Quote:

Also, FDR didn't win the war, the USA didn't win the war, and the nukes over Japan didn't win the war (Japan would've surrendered anyway). For the sake of nuance: I would have been speaking German right now if it hadn't been for the Red Army. Seventy years ago there were literally hanging posters in Norwegian cities giving the Soviet Union (and Stalin!) credit for having liberated Norway from the Nazis. It sounds ridiculous now, but it was a normal sentiment back then. Today it's different, we're nearly told that the US won the war with help from the Allies. And it almost seems to me like some people are trying to create a cult of personality around Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Bolded: yes they did of course. Japan were preparing for a full-fledged American invasion and readying their people to die for the emperor. Even after the first atom bomb was dropped they refused to surrender; it was only after the second one hit that they agreed. Yeah, really sounds to me like a country preparing to surrender.

Japanese troops rushing out with their hands up as Enola Gay flies overhead: "Don't do it! Don't do it! We surrender! We surre - Ah ****!"

Also, I said FDR won the war in the Pacific, if you remember.
That's not in doubt.

duga · 04-13-2017, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

FDR authorized the development of the atomic bomb which ushered in the era of nuclear warfare and nuclear proliferation. He never mentioned the Holocaust in any public speech. Did not sign anti-lynching legislation. He sign Executive Order 9066 which lead to the forced relocation and incarceration of 110,000 Japanese into interment camps. Quite a legacy. Why, who would want to deny that?

Everyone knew what you meant. FDR made America great again, the way it was before before 1929. And FDR is responsible for American exceptionalism, by getting us out of the war. See FDR was the commander and chief of US armed forces that defeated the Nazis, thus consequently getting us out of the war. I apologize for mentioning the Allies, British Spies, and the restistance because that subtracts from American exceptionalism. FDR MAGA!

So who deserves to be recognized with an overall positive legacy to you, exactly?

FDR is recognized as a great president on both sides of the aisle. Much like democrats give republicans their Reagan legacy (even though he really screwed up more than he fixed), no one really trashes FDR. Again, I'm not going to even bother responding with details because your arguments have all the nuance of a 10 year old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

So the US has two right-wing parties? I don't get that.

Bolded: yes they did of course. Japan were preparing for a full-fledged American invasion and readying their people to die for the emperor. Even after the first atom bomb was dropped they refused to surrender; it was only after the second one hit that they agreed. Yeah, really sounds to me like a country preparing to surrender.

Japanese troops rushing out with their hands up as Enola Gay flies overhead: "Don't do it! Don't do it! We surrender! We surre - Ah ****!"

Also, I said FDR won the war in the Pacific, if you remember.
That's not in doubt.

The military leaders of Japan wanted to continue the war, but the emperor wanted it to end. Before the bomb was dropped, he was hoping to negotiate a peaceful surrender. That was the whole point of the US insisting that the Soviet Union declare war on them. Truman decided he wanted to show off how big the US's dick was and went ahead and dropped the bomb, even though the war was all but over. This, combined with Truman backing out of a lot of the concessions made to the Soviet Union between Stalin and FDR, essentially started the Cold War.

Edit: Just saw Frownland talked about this.

djchameleon · 04-13-2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Russia and Iran are pretty pissed about the red line being crossed and for good reason

With Trump in charge I feel like the evil empire and I'm rooting for the ragtag other side

Or maybe I should say even more the evil empire

I think this is all posturing. Russia isn't really pissed off. They are only putting on that act to take the heat off of how friendly Trump is with Russia and all the investigations that are currently going on. They are still close and buddy buddy. We even warned Russia about the attacks before they happened so that they could pass the info onto Syria. It's the main reason the base we attacked the **** out of was fully operational like two days after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

What's not to get? Both our wings are conservative.

No, more like one of our wings is conservative and the other is moderate but likes to argue that they are completely on the left and don't want to cooperate with the conservatives.

**Goofle** · 04-13-2017, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isbjørn

Capitalism plus huge welfare programs equals social democracy, but that's not what I'm proposing. What are you getting at?

Also, on what do you base your claims about "human nature"? If they can't be backed up, then they're nothing more than ideologically based assumptions, unfit for political discussion. Common sense doesn't cut it.

1. I was pointing out a current system that has seemingly done it's best to provide a platform to keep every person relatively able to fill their greed, not to say that was what you advocated for. I specifically said it wasn't communism (or whatever system you want) in fact.

2. You need proof of inherent human greed? I'm not the best at finding studies, and there seems to be some on either side of the fence (or that it's a balance) but sometimes common sense and empiricism seems to be the best option.

3. I wasn't using my view that most people are greedy to support a political ideology. I'm against the huge welfare programs I mentioned, for example.