What Did President Trump Do Now?

duga · 04-13-2017, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Yeah but I disagree with you both. The Allies wanted unconditional surrender, and the Japanese military command were worried that this might not exclude the execution of the emperor. As he was/is seen as divine, this would be the ultimate humilation and they vowed to fight on (or, more accurately, have their people fight on) to the end. They were definitely preparing to meet a US invasion; they were training civilians in the art of laying down their lives for the emperor.

Again, the military wanted to keep going - even after surrender, many of them committed suicide on the spot because they were so ashamed. Aside from the military, Japan knew they were done in the days leading up to the bomb being dropped. The political leaders were essentially begging the Soviet Union to act as a middle-man to broker a peace with the allies. After the Soviets declared war on them ending their neutrality pact in an effort to secure an unconditional surrender, essentially the ONLY concession they wanted was for the imperial family to live. Truman just wasn't having it.

Chula Vista · 04-13-2017, 02:18 PM

Holy Moly. The goalposts have been majorly moved.

First on CNN: US drops largest non-nuclear bomb in Afghanistan - CNNPolitics.com

21,000 pound bomb. That's like 70 Frowland's.

**Frownland** · 04-13-2017, 02:20 PM

I rate it 4/10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Never heard of that. So there is no left wing in the US?

Yeah but I disagree with you both. The Allies wanted unconditional surrender, and the Japanese military command were worried that this might not exclude the execution of the emperor. As he was/is seen as divine, this would be the ultimate humilation and they vowed to fight on (or, more accurately, have their people fight on) to the end. They were definitely preparing to meet a US invasion; they were training civilians in the art of laying down their lives for the emperor.

Ja that sounds a lot like the propaganda points I mentioned earlier.

Check this out: Hiroshima: Breaking the Silence

Pet_Sounds · 04-13-2017, 02:39 PM

From Dwight D. Eisenhower's memoirs:

Quote:

During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'.

Admittedly, I haven't read up on Hiroshima/Nagasaki much, but I thought this was worth inserting into the discussion.

Trollheart · 04-13-2017, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

From Dwight D. Eisenhower's memoirs:

Admittedly, I haven't read up on Hiroshima/Nagasaki much, but I thought this was worth inserting into the discussion.

Now that is interesting. Thanks man.
I still believe FDR deserves his place in history regardless. He was a great leader, even incapacitated as he was.

duga · 04-13-2017, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

From Dwight D. Eisenhower's memoirs:

Admittedly, I haven't read up on Hiroshima/Nagasaki much, but I thought this was worth inserting into the discussion.

Exactly - Japan was obsessed with saving as much face as possible. They even found a silver lining with the bombs, thinking at least now people will see they HAD to surrender and the surrender didn't happen because of some social or political push.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Now that is interesting. Thanks man.
I still believe FDR deserves his place in history regardless. He was a great leader, even incapacitated as he was.

You can still love FDR - Truman dropped the bombs.

djchameleon · 04-13-2017, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Holy Moly. The goalposts have been majorly moved.

First on CNN: US drops largest non-nuclear bomb in Afghanistan - CNNPolitics.com

21,000 pound bomb. That's like 70 Frowland's.

We have been bombing caves in Afghanstan for ages. What's another ISIS cave bombing? Nothing but sensationalism.

duga · 04-13-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

We have been bombing caves in Afghanstan for ages. What's another ISIS cave bombing? Nothing but sensationalism.

Pretty much what I thought. Trump is going trigger-happy now, so the generals are probably jangling some ISIS keys in front of his face.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 04-13-2017, 04:51 PM

EDIT: Not sure how to re-size this so it's not obnoxiously huge.

Fixed it ~ Exo

**Goofle** · 04-13-2017, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

We are also incredibly empathetic and cooperative

And largely a product of social influences

You have an incredibly simple view of human nature rejected by most anthropologists at this point basically

Duh.

There's some nature and nurture involved in every aspect of our being.

More simplistic than saying humans are naturally greedy to some extent on average?

04-13-2017, 02:18 PM	#4002 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Holy Moly. The goalposts have been majorly moved. First on CNN: US drops largest non-nuclear bomb in Afghanistan - CNNPolitics.com 21,000 pound bomb. That's like 70 Frowland's. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

04-13-2017, 04:51 PM	#4009 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	EDIT: Not sure how to re-size this so it's not obnoxiously huge. Fixed it ~ Exo