What Did President Trump Do Now?

Anteater · 03-19-2017, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It's hilarious when people speak as if their experience is the universal human experience. Funny thing, I've grown more left wing as I've gotten older. I was always skeptical of government, but it took working in the corporate world for me to understand that corporations—contrary to the fantasy often peddled in the US—are generally disorganized, bureaucratic garbage dumps, where the people in charge are rarely the best and brightest and are far more often the best schmoozers or the biggest assholes. I also grew to understand that the prevailing corporate philosophy of perpetual growth is not only unsustainable but is actually a huge problem because it compels companies screw over workers, screw over any other people who get in their way, and degrade the environment. I've come to realize that government is one of the only even remotely effective levers we have against corporate misbehavior. Beyond that, just from living in the "real world", I've come to understand that the American right wing's supposed support of individual rights is bullshit.

See, that wasn't so hard. If Janszoon can do it, anyone can!

At least you have the common sense to recognize that not all corporations are as you describe. Still doesn't provide a strong argument against the problems I've already illustrated about government though. It's like you read two sentences of my post and then went off on a tangent about corporations.

See, I can decide whether or not I want to buy from a company. I don't get a say in how my taxes are used but the government takes it anyway (state and federal alike). Hence, from my perspective, the government has always been worse than any company and far scarier. Also, most of your criticisms about the corporate world apply to government, so if your goal was to support my argument then you hit the jackpot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

To what, the cliche? My counter argument is the loads of people who deal with the government who think that logical liberal solutions still work.

This may not pertain to you, but I think that a lot of construct a bogeyman view of the government because they only associate with the government when they're forced to, and nobody likes that. Some people only see the negative parts that affect their lives and take a lot of the positive things for granted. Food for thought.

People can whine about the corporate world, but if the government has ever been able to do anything efficiently other than tax the living **** out of people and pay their employees on time, I've never seen it. Everything people hate about the corporate world - multiply it and you have the U.S. government.

DwnWthVwls · 03-19-2017, 11:07 AM

They go to war and rebuild nations like a boss.

djchameleon · 03-19-2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

People can whine about the corporate world, but if the government has ever been able to do anything efficiently other than tax the living **** out of people and pay their employees on time, I've never seen it.

They restrict corporations pretty well through regulations that's why Trump is pushing so hard to get rid of them. He has this great idea of introducing one regulation and getting rid of two others or some crap like that. Mostly to benefit lobbyists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

They go to war and sell weapons to their enemies like a boss.

Fixed that for you.

Lisnaholic · 03-19-2017, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It's hilarious when people speak as if their experience is the universal human experience. Funny thing, I've grown more left wing as I've gotten older. I was always skeptical of government, but it took working in the corporate world for me to understand that corporations—contrary to the fantasy often peddled in the US—are generally disorganized, bureaucratic garbage dumps, where the people in charge are rarely the best and brightest and are far more often the best schmoozers or the biggest assholes. I also grew to understand that the prevailing corporate philosophy of perpetual growth is not only unsustainable but is actually a huge problem because it compels companies screw over workers, screw over any other people who get in their way, and degrade the environment. I've come to realize that government is one of the only even remotely effective levers we have against corporate misbehavior. Beyond that, just from living in the "real world", I've come to understand that the American right wing's supposed support of individual rights is bullshit.

The bit in bold is a fundamental truth that usually gets ignored in the constant clamour for growth. Although this is quite an old clip, the analysis is good and clear, for example at 1:10:"You cannot run a linear system on a finite planet indefinitely"

**Frownland** · 03-19-2017, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

See, I can decide whether or not I want to buy from a company. I don't get a say in how my taxes are used but the government takes it anyway (state and federal alike). Hence, from my perspective, the government has always been worse than any company.

Quote:

People can whine about the corporate world, but if the government has ever been able to do anything efficiently other than tax the living **** out of people and pay their employees on time, I've never seen it. Everything people hate about the corporate world - multiply it and you have the U.S. government.

Interesting. Taxing people and paying people on time is way less intrusion from the government than the one in my country. What's it like?

DwnWthVwls · 03-19-2017, 11:21 AM

@Ant

^Frown's first quote: I'm not sure if you are being deliberately dense or you're just naive, but not everyone has the option to vote with their dollar.

Anteater · 03-19-2017, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Interesting. Taxing people and paying people on time is way less intrusion from the government than the one in my country. What's it like?

If you don't see the irony of a government that is efficient about taking your money and paying it's bureaucrats but bungles everything else that matters, then I'll just leave that on the table to speak for itself.

Oh wait, they're good at illegally spying on the the population too. Almost forgot that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

@Ant

^Frown's first quote: I'm not sure if you are being deliberately dense or you're just naive, but not everyone has the option to vote with their dollar.

In the U.S. all you can do IS vote with your dollar pretty much. Not on everything, but in most things it's all you've got. Rich and poor alike.

djchameleon · 03-19-2017, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Oh wait, they're good at legally spying on the the population too. Almost forgot that one.

I think that's what you meant.

It has been legal to do that since 9/11.

**Frownland** · 03-19-2017, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

If you don't see the irony of a government that is efficient about taking your money and paying its' bureaucrats but bungles pretty much everything else .

My point was that this is such a narrow view of the government that it borders on wilful ignorance or exclusion. What about infrasctructure? Human rights? Child labor laws? Social security systems?

But nah you've dealt with the government when they taxed your tech company so you know that that's all they do and therefore they are exclusively monsters and there is no room for improvement ever.

DwnWthVwls · 03-19-2017, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

In the U.S. all you can do IS vote with your dollar pretty much. Not on everything, but in most things it's all you've got.

I don't disagree with that. What I'm asking you to acknowledge is that a significant portion of the population are not actually in a position to do so.

For instance, when Walmart is basically the only option you have, and you have a low income, you shop there for the basic necessities of life, even though it is a terrible company. I never shop there because I am fortunate enough to have other options and the financial capacity to take my business else where.