What Did President Trump Do Now?

**Goofle** · 01-30-2017, 08:45 PM

Obama selected the specific countries Trump "banned". That's a fact. Read the document bro.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2017, 08:50 PM

If you're referring to Obama telling the DoHS to focus on the travel to and from one country in an attempt to catch two fugitives then I guess you could say that both instances are the same if you remove 100% of the context.

Chula Vista · 01-30-2017, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Obama selected the specific countries Trump "banned". That's a fact. Read the document bro.

Read very slowly:

Quote:

So, are the policies similar as Trump claimed?

In the most superficial of ways, yes. They both limit immigration into the United States on a temporary basis. But there are two significant differences that Trump omits.

In 2011, there was a specific threat

First, Obama’s suspension was in direct response to a failed plot by Iraqi nationals living in Bowling Green, Ky., to send money, explosives and weapons to al-Qaida. The two men were arrested by the FBI in May 2011 for actions committed in Iraq and trying to assist overseas terrorist groups.

Both had entered the United States as refugees after lying about their past terrorism ties on paperwork. One man worked as a bombmaker in Iraq, and the FBI even matched his fingerprints to an unexploded IED discovered in 2005 in Iraq, raising questions about the thoroughness of the vetting process.

Trump’s ban, meanwhile, is more preemptive. As PolitiFact reported, no refugee or immigrant from any of the seven countries targeted by the ban has been implicated in any fatal terrorist attack in the United States, though perpetrators of at least three non-deadly cases were connected to Iran or Somalia.

Obama’s order was narrower in scope

Second, the scope of the two policies is slightly different. Obama’s 2011 order put a pause on refugee processing, whereas Trump’s halt in entries applies to all non-U.S. visitors.

It should also be noted that Iraqi refugees were still admitted to the United States every month in 2011, though there was a significant drop after May of that year.

According to the New York Times, the Obama administration also required new background checks for visa applicants from Iraq after the Bowling Green incident. Lawmakers at a 2012 congressional hearing also indicated that the Department of Homeland Security expanded screening to the Iraqi refugees already settled in the United States.

But again, these are different from a blanket ban on visitors. Obama, speaking through a spokesperson, disagreed with the comparison in a statement.

There are other precedents for temporary halts in immigration. A 2016 Congressional Research Service report notes that refugee admissions were also briefly suspended after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attack to review the security procedures, leading to an overhaul of the system. A special subset of refugee admissions for reuniting families was suspended in 2008 in certain locations in Africa after higher rates of fraud.

So like Obama’s 2011 suspension, both the post-9/11 and African cases were in reaction to immediate issues and limited to refugees.

Trump’s order is broader, and his administration has provided no evidence it is in response to any particular event.

The seven countries on Trump’s list

While not necessarily part of this fact-check, Trump’s suggestion that he selected the seven countries as a continuation of Obama’s policy is imprecise.

According to the executive order, Trump’s action applies to "countries designated pursuant to Division O, Title II, Section 203 of the 2016 consolidated Appropriations Act."

That refers to a 2015 act, signed into law by Obama, revising the United States’ visa waiver program. The visa waiver program allows citizens from 38 countries to enter the United States without a visa for up to 90 days. Under the legislation, citizens of those 38 countries who had traveled to Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Sudan after March 2011 were no longer eligible for the visa waiver. Libya, Yemen, and Somalia were later added to the list.

In other words, Obama’s actions dealt with people who had visited Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen, not citizens of those countries, and it did not prohibit them from entering the United States.

Again, act like an adult.

**Goofle** · 01-30-2017, 09:12 PM

Obama lacked action, we get it.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2017, 09:14 PM

Wait, if Trump did the same thing as Obama, what caused it to be effective this time around and why didn't it work before? Or are we deluding ourselves with partisan politics again?

Chula Vista · 01-30-2017, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Obama lacked action, we get it.

Please list all of the terrorist acts committed or planned by a citizen of those 7 countries that took place in the United States.

Now do the same for the 4 Muslim countries that Trump excluded from the ban, and just by chance, were part of 9/11 AND, he has lucrative business connections with.

And also, Trump is president. Not Obama. Stop looking backwards and deal with the present. Isn't that what all of you conservatives were preaching very loudly after Obama took office? Stop being a hypocrite.

I'll be waiting on your lists.

Anteater · 01-30-2017, 10:56 PM

It isn't just Trump with conflicts of interest in Saudi Arabia...it's the whole damn U.S. For that reason, I'm not surprised Trump didn't ban them, nor am I surprised previous administrations didn't ban them either.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2017, 11:07 PM

Congressional term limits: yay or nay?

Chula Vista · 01-30-2017, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

It isn't just Trump with conflicts of interest in Saudi Arabia...it's the whole damn U.S. For that reason, I'm not surprised Trump didn't ban them.

Missing the point a bit.

Oh, and YAY!

djchameleon · 01-31-2017, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Congressional term limits: yay or nay?

Yay on this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Obama selected the specific countries Trump "banned". That's a fact. Read the document bro.

Why comparing Trump's and Obama's immigration restrictions is flawed | PolitiFact

Quote:

Trump said, "My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months."

The Obama administration in 2011 delayed processing Iraqi refugees for six months following evidence of a failed plot by two Iraqi refugees.

Trump’s executive order temporarily bars travel to the United States for all citizens from seven countries, and it is not in direct response to actions from citizens of those countries.

Furthermore, Iraqi refugees were nonetheless admitted to the United States during the 2011 suspension while Trump has put an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees.

Take your own advice and read the document.

People that are trying to argue that it isn't a Muslim ban like MLM.
Full text of Trump's executive order on 7-nation ban, refugee suspension - CNNPolitics.com

Quote:

Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

So they are okay with letting in Christians, Catholics and any other minority religion because it is a MUSLIM ban!

It's not like you are thinking just banning the countries for whatever else other reasoning. They have the mindset that Muslims are dangerous and should be banned.

01-30-2017, 08:50 PM	#1722 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	If you're referring to Obama telling the DoHS to focus on the travel to and from one country in an attempt to catch two fugitives then I guess you could say that both instances are the same if you remove 100% of the context. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-30-2017, 09:14 PM	#1725 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Wait, if Trump did the same thing as Obama, what caused it to be effective this time around and why didn't it work before? Or are we deluding ourselves with partisan politics again? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-30-2017, 11:07 PM	#1728 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Congressional term limits: yay or nay? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

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