The Islam Thread

[Lucem Ferre]

Racism and antisemitism existed before Mein Kampf. Nazism is what ever the Nazi wants it to be.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jwb

So you're going with the chicken/egg routine

Once again though you pick a vague enough term like "tradition." This is just like the "culture" argument all over again. Religion is intimately and inextricably linked to both tradition and culture. It also acts as an explicit mechanism for preserving both.

Alright I'm honestly too lazy to stay in this Islam conversation but if you're suggesting it's possible that religion created homophobia rather than just bolster it then I have to side eye you. It's not even about white knighting religion but religion would never have been homophobic if homophobia hadn't already been a cultural norm that religion was codifying and rationalizing. Even the Greeks didn't allow for men marrying men.

[jwb]

Mein Kampf is honestly not a good analogy. It's cheating for the author to go ahead and commit the genocide himself. A real guru inspires others to do it.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Alright I'm honestly too lazy to stay in this Islam conversation but if you're suggesting it's possible that religion created homophobia rather than just bolster it then I have to side eye you. It's not even about white knighting religion but religion would never have been homophobic if homophobia hadn't already been a cultural norm that religion was codifying and rationalizing. Even the Greeks didn't allow for men marrying men.

I never said it invented the concept of sexual repression or homophobia... It reinforces it through an unwavering and systematic ideology. Elph said that if you lose religion you won't lose your homophobia. On a population statistics level that's just demonstrably untrue. That has nothing to do with religion inventing anything.

[Lucem Ferre]

I'm just talking shit.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by elphenor

this would be the entire point

religion is not an ideology like Maoism

I'm talking **** but do you really think religion isn't an ideology?

[jwb]

It's more than just an ideology... But it's no less ideological.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by elphenor

not by itself

I don't think that this is even controversial

Just on the real: if a person tells you they’re religious don’t you think less of them? Be honest.

[Lucem Ferre]

IDK, when somebody tells me they are a Satanist it tells me a lot about them.

Edit: LaVeyan Satanist, I mean.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

if you want to talk about a specific sect of a religion, possibly

but there are progressive Christians and Muslims, and they no less have claim to their faith than anyone else

someone's spirituality tells you **** all about them

progressive Christians and Muslims are just people who are not willing to accept the bleak reality of atheism and feel some sort of cultural ties to their religion of birth. The more progressive they are the further removed they are from their holy book.

BTW ideology means more than just politics. Believing that Jesus is the son of God who died for your sins is inherently ideological.