The Islam Thread

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Have you read it?

No, but maybe I should.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by jwb

Also it occurs to me with regard to broadbrushing.. why is it less bigoted to say there is a problem with Pakistani culture than with Islam? You're just narrowing the scope of your bigotry.

It's actually more bigoted because it implies every Pakistani thinks the same way. Calling Islam toxic is only talking about the religion and he's calling the people toxic.

[Neapolitan]

It's not like every Pakistani has the same religion. Pakistani Christians are persecuted.

[Lucem Ferre]

And the ****ed up thing is America is the reason why conservatism rules in the middle east and our insistence in drone striking and indiscriminately murdering them does more to prevent progress than the poisonous religion.

So while Islam, just like Christianity and Judaism, is toxic it's really America that's the most toxic force of all.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No, but maybe I should.

It’s pretty boring and rambling but he does throw in a few good zingers.

[OccultHawk]

it's really America that's the most toxic force of all

Church

[jwb]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

And the ****ed up thing is America is the reason why conservatism rules in the middle east and our insistence in drone striking and indiscriminately murdering them does more to prevent progress than the poisonous religion.

So while Islam, just like Christianity and Judaism, is toxic it's really America that's the most toxic force of all.

America isn't the reason the middle east is conservative. It's actually incredibly ethnocentric to see it this way. The cultures and religious trends of the middle east aren't just a response to Western imperialism. They're shaped in the modern context towards violence and antagonism with the west through our foreign policy... But the conservative nature of the religion existed even at the heights of Islamic conquest. I know many of us forget but there was a time when the Islamic world was more powerful than the Christian west. They have their own culture. Not everything they do is in direct relation to us.

[Lucem Ferre]

And the conservative nature of Christianity and Judaism persist the only difference is we're more secular, less religious, but those that still remain conservative preach the same xenophobia that the conservatives over there preach. The only difference is there was/is more truth to their fears of America than there are to the Christian ones.

America can pretend to be better but what do you think this country would be like if the conservatives terrorizing Portland with guns and black trucks (;D) got their way? And they are pushing people that aren't conservative into supporting them through the same fear mongering.

[jwb]

I'm not saying America is better. There's a lot of similarities between fundamentalist Christians in America and conservative Muslims in the middle east and Europe. I'm just saying America didn't make them conservative. The west did stir up extremist tendencies through colonialism but the Islamic world is inherently conservative to the extent that they insist on sticking to ancient traditions.

[Lucem Ferre]

And I think they'd have stayed on the path of becoming more secular if it weren't for American meddling.