The Islam Thread

[SGR]

Originally Posted by elphenor

should ask OH

then whether he needed Islam to reach that conclusion

I'm not asking OH, I'm asking you.

Do you think that, in aggregate, ISIS is right about the West?

[Lucem Ferre]

Do you guys really think the middle east is a monolith of ideas and every Muslim there worships or believes the same things?

The religion is poison, because of course something that tells you to stone adulterers is ****ing poison, but can't we really blame the middle east on conservatism? Their government? American meddling consistently halting progress?

That's ultimately the problem with OH singling out Islam as toxic. It coincides with the conspiracy theory that Muslims are coming here to force Sharia Law on us when they're really trying to escape it.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

The religion is poison

of course something that tells you to stone adulterers is ****ing poison, but can't we really blame the middle east on conservatism? Their government? American meddling consistently halting progress?

That's ultimately the problem with Lucem singling out Islam as toxic. It coincides with the conspiracy theory that Muslims are coming here to force Sharia Law on us when they're really trying to escape it

[Lucem Ferre]

I didn't single it out. I was responding to the conversation which was about Islam.

You singled it out.

[The Batlord]

OH clearly never got over 9/11.

[Lucem Ferre]

Actually 9/11 was one of the rare moments OH became fond of Islam.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Do you guys really think the middle east is a monolith of ideas and every Muslim there worships or believes the same things?

The religion is poison, because of course something that tells you to stone adulterers is ****ing poison, but can't we really blame the middle east on conservatism? Their government? American meddling consistently halting progress?

That's ultimately the problem with OH singling out Islam as toxic. It coincides with the conspiracy theory that Muslims are coming here to force Sharia Law on us when they're really trying to escape it.

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Definitely. The power lies in the culture and behavior of the people. Who in America happen in to be toxic morons.



Kenosha sure looked like it.



Sometimes the cringe is captured by historians. Like the original Jamestown colonists hardly included anybody with medical and agricultural skills.

And Salem gets a laugh.

The civil war in Rwanda... World War One is often correctly portrayed as a big stupid war over nothing


But there are other acts of incredible idiocy that still get good reviews like the nuclear arms race. The entire Reagan administration. The denial of the toxic nature of Islam. The American Revolution.

and today endless dedication to the constitution capitalism and democracy despite mountains and mountains of evidence that it’s the most horrendous threat to humanity ever known... it looks good on paper but the proof is in the pudding and we’re drowning in pudding

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I didn't single it out. I was responding to the conversation which was about Islam.

You singled it out.

ok

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

forget whether it's bigoted (it is)

it's stupid

it implies Muslims can't ever move past traditionalism without removing Islam, something that's plainly false

the dumbassery of it all even emboldens the extremists, if anyone were serious about addressing the issues, they'd seek to bolster secular Islam

Er... No. Saying there are obvious problems that stem from the religion in general or that the religion itself is a net negative force in the world is not saying what Muslims can or can't do. It's not up to me to try to craft a more liberal interpretation of Islam that I find more palatable. That's what religions naturally do when confronted with modernity and secular criticism. They split into factions of reformers and fundamentalists.

It's exactly the same approach we have with Christianity. You don't have to pretend the Bible isn't blatantly homophobic. You can offer the criticism that it is, and Christians will tend to either 1) double down on homophobia 2) develop increasingly convoluted and creative arguments for why it's not homophobic 3) leave the religion. Option 3 is rare. Whether you choose option 1 or 2 will largely tend to depend on whether you have inherently liberal disposition. For the people who choose option 2, they make the religion more tolerant by essentially watering it down. They're slowly leaving the religion without actually realizing it. Which is fine.

As for bigoted... You still haven't answered a very simple question. Why is it less bigoted to blame the culture than it is to blame the religion? The culture is even more geographically and ethnically specific, where as the religion is at least in theory universal and race neutral.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

stoning for adultery is actually a great to being up here because it's not mentioned in the Quran at all

people want to stone some mother****ers, so they do, there's even some convoluted reasoning behind it

like I said, it's from the Hadiths. The Quran prescribes 100 lashes.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by jwb

like I said, it's from the Hadiths. The Quran prescribes 100 lashes.

Dem lashes ain’t no joke neither