The Islam Thread

[jwb]

I was broadbrushing too. My version just seems more believable though slightly less cliche.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

I'm not going to take a position on the Islam debate (yet) - but perhaps some examples would help.

Do we have some examples about problems inherent to Islam or the common practice of the religion that manifest themselves in ways that differentiate Islam from other religions (and their current common practice)? Examples/sources might be more productive for debate if we all want to be on the same page.

in terms of text they aren't too differentiated from the Jews. But the main difference is that large portions of Muslims still practice a lot of the laws that most Jews have long since abandoned.

I.E. the main difference between Judaism and Islam is that Islam still has actual practitioners.

[SGR]

Originally Posted by jwb

in terms of text they aren't too differentiated from the Jews. But the main difference is that large portions of Muslims still practice a lot of the laws that most Jews have long since abandoned.

I.E. the main difference between Judaism and Islam is that Islam still has actual practitioners.

I assume we're talking about laws they continue to practice that you view as negative? If so, like what?

Maybe you can clear this up for me - here's my possibly completely wrong understanding of things - the Jews think that Christ was a false prophet who is burning in a pool of excrement in hell (or, at least, that's what is written in the Talmud), and Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet, but he was not the true prophet? Is that in any way correct? If so, how do Christians so fervently support Jews and generally dislike Muslims?

[jwb]

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

I assume we're talking about laws they continue to practice that you view as negative? If so, like what?

Like stoning adulterers.

Maybe you can clear this up for me - here's my possibly completely wrong understanding of things - the Jews think that Christ was a false prophet who is burning in a pool of excrement in hell (or, at least, that's what is written in the Talmud), and Muslims believe that Christ was a prophet, but he was not the true prophet? Is that in any way correct? If so, how do Christians so fervently support Jews and generally dislike Muslims?

So in Judaism there's this concept called Messiah which is the prophet who will help god restore his kingdom on earth through Israel.

Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet and a disgraced liar. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, and the Messiah. But not the son of God. Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God, and God himself.

Christians don't actually care for Jews. The modern evangelist movement just sees them as a tool to bring to fruition the prophecies of Armageddon which leads to the apocalypse.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by jwb

I was broadbrushing too. My version just seems more believable though slightly less cliche.

I find my beliefs pretty believable too.

[SGR]

Originally Posted by jwb

Like stoning adulterers.

I know they have some pretty harsh punishments in Islamic countries. I believe in Saudi Arabia, they still have public whippings. How often does the stoning of adulterers occur? Is this a public thing?

Correct me if I'm wrong here - but many of Christianity's more toxic beliefs were expunged in the Reformation, right (led my Martin Luther)? I don't think that Islam has had a similar kind of reformation -- or has it?

Originally Posted by jwb

So in Judaism there's this concept called Messiah which is the prophet who will help god restore his kingdom on earth through Israel.

Jews believe Jesus was a false prophet and a disgraced liar. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, and the Messiah. But not the son of God. Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah, the son of God, and God himself.

Christians don't actually care for Jews. The modern evangelist movement just sees them as a tool to bring to fruition the prophecies of Armageddon which leads to the apocalypse.

Do they have something in particular that they believe Jesus lied about? Or is it more of a blanket statement?

And Christians actually believe that Jesus was God? I thought they believed that Jesus was the son of God who ascended to join God in heaven?

I thought that most Christians liked Jews (which is why I thought that the Republican party constantly pandered to Israel)? But you're saying it's generally only evangelicals who care for them, and only as a religious tool?

This **** is all so confusing to me.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

I know they have some pretty harsh punishments in Islamic countries. I believe in Saudi Arabia, they still have public whippings. How often does the stoning of adulterers occur? Is this a public thing?

I couldn't tell you how often. The method probably varies based on the country. But the part about you should stone adulterers to death is written in the Hadith's. The Quran actually prescribes 100 lashes for adulterers but the tendency in Islamic society has been to go with the stoning instead.

Do they have something in particular that they believe Jesus lied about? Or is it more of a blanket statement?

lied about being the Messiah, the son of God...

And Christians actually believe that Jesus was God? I thought they believed that Jesus was the son of God who ascended to join God in heaven?

look up the holy Trinity. Though I doubt it will make you less confused.

I thought that most Christians liked Jews (which is why I thought that the Republican party constantly pandered to Israel)? But you're saying it's generally only evangelicals who care for them, and only as a religious tool?

This **** is all so confusing to me.

what I mean to say is there's a long history of Christian antisemitism and the American Christian zionists are a recent phenomenon. They support Israel because they believe it will bring on Armageddon and because of this Christians in America are taught from an early age to support Israel and they're the good guys in the region... Which not surprisingly leads to actual positive perceptions of Jews among modern evangelical Christians. That doesn't mean they're going to heaven though.

[jwb]

It's funny how "culture" can be criticized but not a religion. As if Arabian culture and Islam can be neatly delineated.

[jwb]

What's not obvious is why it's somehow less bigoted or racist to pin it on the culture than the religion. Because that is what is implied when Islamic apologists so often deflect the criticisms of Islam onto Arab Bedouin culture.

Not only are culture and religion linked... The particular nature of Islam as a religion built on conquest means that the various other cultures who have succumbed to Islamic teaching have also been passed on various aspects of Arabian culture... Hence why Arabic is such a widely spoken language or why Muslim converts often so adopt Arabic names and styles of dress.

[OccultHawk]

I’m officially converting to Islam right now. Allahu akbar bitches. Stop marginalizing me. I’m also trans so don’t get it twisted. I’m wearing a Burka.