The Islam Thread

[jwb]

How is colonialism responsible for the principles of Islam? The Islamic world has certainly been ****ed by colonialism, but it existed prior to the era of European colonialism. In fact they were imperialists themselves, and conquered a good bit of the planet at certain periods of time. But I'm talking about Islam, the religion. Not Islamic empires. Not Muslims themselves. Just the text

[Frownland]

Not precisely colonialism, but oppression was defo involved. The later texts of the quran and hadith were written (or said/done/not done for the hadith) when muslims began facing persecution in Mecca through the various wars they fought until mohame died, and the tone grew markedly more militant compared to its earlier foundations.

[jwb]

Yes, oppression within Saudi Arabia, which has nothing to do with us.

I definitely agree that Islam was a product of it's time and culture and that it wasn't such a crazy thing in that context. But in the modem context it's archaic.

[Frownland]

That's why I said it wasn't colonialism...

Colonialism did however inform modern extremist interpretations of their holy texts as these are informed by Wahhabism. I learned that from you lol.

It's archaic and I'm anti-Islam as well but everyone being baffled at how that sentiment can be interpreted as bigoted lacks as much self awareness as the reality denying liberals they're decrying.

[jwb]

I am not really baffled by it, more rejecting the impetus to treat Islam with kid gloves out of a sort of condescending politeness. I frankly don't care if it seems bigoted. If I see someone saying Muslims are a problem because XYZ that's different. All I saw OH say is something along the lines of Islam isn't really a force for good in the world. The idea this is problematic because it singles out Islam is a standard we never apply to any other religion or ideology. There is a problem with islamaphobia but I don't think this is really the best way to address that.

[Frownland]

Recognizing obsessing over the flaws of one religion in a context where that's being used to justify wars and oppression as a questionable act is not the same as saying that we should "treat Islam with kid gloves".

There's plenty of flaws in Jewish religious texts too but if someone always made a point of Judaism's negative influence on the world, the real message would be obvious. Much anti-Islamic rhetoric strikes me the same way.

[jwb]

Maybe I'm missing some context here... Where was OH using Islam to justify wars?

[Frownland]

I was referring to the u.s. presence in the middle east.

[Lucem Ferre]

Maybe you missed the post but OH said that he doesn't care about the US indiscriminately murdering Iranians because of their "poisonous sand monkey cult".

It was a pretty bad take imo.

[jwb]

So basically because anti Islamic talking points are used in war propaganda then you are linking his obsession with the flaws of that religion with said propaganda. More likely his obsession is due to the taboo around the subject which draws in certain iconoclasts like moths to a flame.