The Islam Thread

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Nah it's not big enough to connect to Central America.

You ninja editing bitch I caught that South America **** up!

[jwb]

Originally Posted by grindy

There are very valid things to be considered when criticizing Islam. Xenophobia is undeniably often the driving force behind it, conservatives doing it are usually incredibly hypocritical about the whole thing, one should be careful about separating between a religion and the people practicing it etc.
But this outright denial of reality, that some liberals are exhibiting, is baffling.

Exactly. If Islam was a white religion it would be the posterboy for religious evil. Since they're brown and we feel bad about colonialism we have to look the other way.

[The Batlord]

More like colonialism is the reason Islam is in the state it's in in certain places so pretending it's just a problem with Islam is bigoted.

[jwb]

How is colonialism responsible for the principles of Islam? The Islamic world has certainly been ****ed by colonialism, but it existed prior to the era of European colonialism. In fact they were imperialists themselves, and conquered a good bit of the planet at certain periods of time. But I'm talking about Islam, the religion. Not Islamic empires. Not Muslims themselves. Just the text

[Frownland]

Not precisely colonialism, but oppression was defo involved. The later texts of the quran and hadith were written (or said/done/not done for the hadith) when muslims began facing persecution in Mecca through the various wars they fought until mohame died, and the tone grew markedly more militant compared to its earlier foundations.

[jwb]

Yes, oppression within Saudi Arabia, which has nothing to do with us.

I definitely agree that Islam was a product of it's time and culture and that it wasn't such a crazy thing in that context. But in the modem context it's archaic.

[Frownland]

That's why I said it wasn't colonialism...

Colonialism did however inform modern extremist interpretations of their holy texts as these are informed by Wahhabism. I learned that from you lol.

It's archaic and I'm anti-Islam as well but everyone being baffled at how that sentiment can be interpreted as bigoted lacks as much self awareness as the reality denying liberals they're decrying.

[jwb]

I am not really baffled by it, more rejecting the impetus to treat Islam with kid gloves out of a sort of condescending politeness. I frankly don't care if it seems bigoted. If I see someone saying Muslims are a problem because XYZ that's different. All I saw OH say is something along the lines of Islam isn't really a force for good in the world. The idea this is problematic because it singles out Islam is a standard we never apply to any other religion or ideology. There is a problem with islamaphobia but I don't think this is really the best way to address that.

[Frownland]

Recognizing obsessing over the flaws of one religion in a context where that's being used to justify wars and oppression as a questionable act is not the same as saying that we should "treat Islam with kid gloves".

There's plenty of flaws in Jewish religious texts too but if someone always made a point of Judaism's negative influence on the world, the real message would be obvious. Much anti-Islamic rhetoric strikes me the same way.

[jwb]

Maybe I'm missing some context here... Where was OH using Islam to justify wars?