Internet censorship and the death of free speech.

The Batlord · 05-23-2016, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

I said I THINK THEY SHOULD UPHOLD THE LAW OF THE LAND. I THINK wish in one hand **** in the other.....

Yeah, we'd all like that, but until it's Congress attacking free speech, then it's just a bunch o' douchebags with too much time on their hands, not an actual infringement of your rights. We have the right to send letters to a TV station to take a show we find offensive off the air, we have the right to turn the channel in the hopes that it will help to influence the network to remove the show, and likewise, a bunch of smarmy SJWs have the right to be moral fascists. It's just another way to spend your money in the marketplace of ideas, albeit a douchey one.

DeadChannel · 05-23-2016, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

I said if it's a a business rooted in the US you should obey the laws or the land, if you don't like them move your domain to another country.

But the laws of the land don't say anything about private businesses giving the same treatment to their customers as the government is expected to give to its citizens. Actually, taken to its logical conclusion, this idea is pretty silly.

If I own a music venue (because this is music banter, yo), and a neo-nazi group asks if they can play at my venue, it's totally within my rights to refuse them. Now, obviously this isn't a free speech thing.

If not providing a platform was tantamount to censorship, then every view and opinion ought to be on national television 24/7 because not providing the platform is taking away their free speech. This is silly and impractical and maybe just a little bit stupid. Freedom of speech prevents the government, and to a certain extent other people, from coercing you into shutting up. No one has any obligation to listen to you.

But further, you act like someone criticizing your ideas or (gasp!) telling you to shut up is also an infringement of free speech. This is even more asinine. Now, as long as I don't take physically violent action against you, I also totally have free speech to tell you you're wrong or tell you to shut up. People calling others out on being *******s is not an infringement of free speech.

Finally, I wouldn't fetishize the early history of America to such an extent. Just because the founding fathers held certain views doesn't make those views accurate. Some of them were pretty major-league dickwads.

Also, please stop with the caps lock. It's really getting on my ****ing nerves (although, keep in mind it's totally within your rights to ignore me. But please, please, stop).

The Batlord · 05-23-2016, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Why they are rooted in the US. OBEY THE ****ING LAW. I AS A CITIZEN HAVE TO WHY ARE COMPANIES EXEMPT.

It don't say they can't fire you.

The law doesn't apply to them, so therefore obeying it is irrelevant. You keep saying that you understand this, and yet you keep posting the exact same thing. What you're saying amounts to exactly, "Wouldn't it be nice if everyone respected people's right to say whatever they want, even though they don't actually have to?"

Well, they don't have to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

I agree but you can't tell someone they can't say something. You can exsplain why you let them go, or booted them from the site as your choice, but to chastise them, ridicule them, censor them, or whatever is impeeding on their right bro.

This site can not tell me to not call you a spear-chucking nigger. So far as I know, I can call you that all I want (and if that falls under hate speech, then you have my support in calling it unconstitutional). But that doesn't mean that the company that owns this site has to host the bits and bytes that make up "spear-chucking nigger". To say that they do would be taking control of their property (or whatever their domain space is legally considered) away from them.

Obviously you understand this, so why you keep making an issue of it, as if it being "spiritually unconstitutional", or whatever, somehow makes it a lesser degree of unconstitutional, I do not know.

**Frownland** · 05-23-2016, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Well lets break down amendment #1 (.U.S. only all others need not apply #ionlyknowourbillofrightsfronttoback.) And remember that this was written so the government is aware of what they can and cannot do. This is notice for them, served 200 years ago because the biggest thing the framers were worried about was the CONSOLIDATION OF POWER. AND THE STATE RUNNING PEOPLE'S LIVES WHEN THEY CAME HERE FOR FREEDOM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Verbatim:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Line one: The state can not come in and say this IS the new religion we are all doing this...... (Ummm no no we ain't) you can't jail, fine or kill someone for worshiping,praying, or serving God whether it is a different God than others, or a different God then the state believes in. YOU HAVE THIS RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT.

Line two: THE STATE CAN NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN NOT SAY, under no circumstances.

( So person to person we all respect the fact that we pretty much know we can say what we want with impunity, whether it's bigoted, immoral, rude, hurtful or mean. Regardless of whether the individual is an ******* or not they can still say what they want and there aint **** the state can do about it. This is why I personally believe "hate speech" is UN-CONSTITUTIONAL. BECAUSE UNDER THE ****ING LAW OF THE LAND YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER WHEN EVER TO WHOMEVER and there isn't anything they can do to stop it. AND IF YOU CHARGE SOME WITH 'hate speech" it's a gross miscarriage of justice.)

Line three: THE PRESS CAN REPORT ANYTHING THAT IS NEWS WHEN THEY WANT WHERE THEY WANT HOWEVER THEY WANT. THE FEDS AND COURTS HAVE NO POWER TO STOP THEM, CENSOR THEM, OR DENY THEM.

LINE FOUR: PEOPLE CAN GATHER IN LARGE GROUPS PEACEFULLY, wether it's to express themselves or say to GOVERNMENT ''hold the **** up man you are over stepping your boundaries here. WE THE PEOPLE don't want this or ask for this. What are you doing?

We should tax churches and religious places just like any other business because that in itself is an establishing a preference for religion in general in our country.

Hate speech with a valid threat violates someone else's right to safety, does it not? That's where the line gets drawn and it rarely happens on a governmental level, and it also puts the burden of proof on the government.

Freedom of the press is only censored by the government if there are secrets in them, and even then there's not much they can do about it. There is a lot of censorship within the press itself for myriad reasons that change from one source to another.

JGuy Grungeman · 05-23-2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadChannel

Wouldn't he have still seen, like, the holocaust coming?He would have seen the Jews being rounded up, and the equipment that would be used to kill them. He would have even seen into Hitler's own mind and what his intentions were. God wouldn't have had to look into the future to see that coming, nor would he have to for almost every other atrocity in history, being omnipotent and all.

Then don't you think it's possible that they were rejecting God's ways? Or at least worshipping him in their own ways instead of the right way? Everyone is human. I think God lifted his protection, and saved them when they cried for help. I mean, it took the Israelites decades to cry out to the lord for help after first being enslaved by the Egyptians, and he sent Moses to save them. If that's the case, it only took the Jews around five years. The cycle goes like this, and is a common theme in the Bible. People rejects God's ways/worship in pagan or incorrect ways. God lifts his protection. The devil comes right in and causes a great pain. People cry for God again. God protects and saves them. And then the cycle continues because mankind is so changeable. I'm no holocaust expert, but I wouldn't doubt that's the case. Even I have different beliefs from some Jewish customs. Not saying the Jews are total sinners, but any religion can be changed. Heck, people leave and join churches because of great changes that happen.

**Frownland** · 05-23-2016, 01:07 PM

^God sounds like a petty ******* if he works like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

but to chastise them, ridicule them, censor them, or whatever is impeeding on their right bro.

Nononono no. Nono no no no no no no nono. Nononononononono nononono nononono no. No. No. No. No. No no no no. (No) no no nononono no no. No nononono (no no no no no).

Impeding someone's right to call someone else's opinions stupid is a far greater infringement of free speech than hurt feelings.

The Batlord · 05-23-2016, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Then don't you think it's possible that they were rejecting God's ways? Or at least worshipping him in their own ways instead of the right way? Everyone is human. I think God lifted his protection, and saved them when they cried for help. I mean, it took the Israelites decades to cry out to the lord for help after first being enslaved by the Egyptians, and he sent Moses to save them. If that's the case, it only took the Jews around five years. The cycle goes like this, and is a common theme in the Bible. People rejects God's ways/worship in pagan or incorrect ways. God lifts his protection. The devil comes right in and causes a great pain. People cry for God again. God protects and saves them. And then the cycle continues because mankind is so changeable. I'm no holocaust expert, but I wouldn't doubt that's the case. Even I have different beliefs from some Jewish customs. Not saying the Jews are total sinners, but any religion can be changed. Heck, people leave and join churches because of great changes that happen.

Congratulations. You've done the impossible. You've legitimately offended me, and not in some sanctimonious SJW way. Like, my core values, such as they are, just flexed.

You believe that it is tolerable for a being to allow people to be worked to death, starved until they were human skeletons, tricked into a shower to be murdered by Zyklon-B gas, shot en masse and buried in a mass grave, have their corpses stripped of even their gold fillings before being incinerated, etc, etc, etc, all because they weren't "worshipping him in the right way"?

What the **** is wrong with your beliefs? I'm seriously not trolling you, because if you truly believe what you just said then I'm not just trying to **** with you. If that's what God is really like, then **** him. **** HIM. I'll stand at the right hand of the devil with a gun in each hand, just waiting for my chance to put two in-between Jehovah's soulless eyes.

Just... what the ****, dude? Like, I'm not even offended so much on behalf of the Jews. I'm mostly flabbergasted that people can believe what you just stated. It makes the world feel like a more hostile place.

**Frownland** · 05-23-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Congratulations. You've done the impossible. You've legitimately offended me, and not in some sanctimonious SJW way. Like, my core values, such as they are, just flexed.

You believe that it is tolerable for a being to allow people to be worked to death, starved until they were human skeletons, tricked into a shower to be murdered by Zyklon-B gas, shot en masse and buried in a mass grave, have their corpses stripped of even their gold fillings before being incinerated, etc, etc, etc, all because they weren't "worshipping him in the right way"?

What the **** is wrong with your beliefs? I'm seriously not trolling you, because if you truly believe what you just said then I'm not just trying to **** with you. If that's what God is really like, then **** him. **** HIM. I'll stand at the right hand of the devil with a gun in each hand, just waiting for my chance to put two in-between Jehovah's soulless eyes.

Just... what the ****, dude? Like, I'm not even offended so much on behalf of the Jews. I'm mostly flabbergasted that people can believe what you just stated. It makes the world feel like a more hostile place.

The whole "God loves you, but you're ****ed if you don't love God back and give him money all the time" idea is pretty central to Christianity.

grindy · 05-23-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Then don't you think it's possible that they were rejecting God's ways? Or at least worshipping him in their own ways instead of the right way? Everyone is human. I think God lifted his protection, and saved them when they cried for help. I mean, it took the Israelites decades to cry out to the lord for help after first being enslaved by the Egyptians, and he sent Moses to save them. If that's the case, it only took the Jews around five years. The cycle goes like this, and is a common theme in the Bible. People rejects God's ways/worship in pagan or incorrect ways. God lifts his protection. The devil comes right in and causes a great pain. People cry for God again. God protects and saves them. And then the cycle continues because mankind is so changeable. I'm no holocaust expert, but I wouldn't doubt that's the case. Even I have different beliefs from some Jewish customs. Not saying the Jews are total sinners, but any religion can be changed. Heck, people leave and join churches because of great changes that happen.

Wow.

The Batlord · 05-23-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

The whole "God loves you, but you're ****ed if you don't love God back and give him money all the time" idea is pretty central to Christianity.

I realize this, but I still kind of feel that most people don't really think about that part of their beliefs too deeply. They just kinda, "Yeah, so... Jesus and ****, why don't we get back to all the nice tales about walking on water and helping your fellow man, and forget all this vengeance stuff? Makes me sad in the pants."

So when I see someone justify the Nazis as a way to purge non-believers, it puts cracks in what little faith I still have in humanity. It's been a while since the militant atheist in me was awoken, but apparently he's still in there.