Brexit? Yay or Nay.

**Frownland** · 07-01-2016, 11:17 AM

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Originally Posted by grindy

But there are pretty big problems with immigrants who don't obey the law.

This is why I brought up how important it is to enforce the laws.

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And while the reasons are complex and economic factors certainly play a huge role, culture is a big factor as well. And if you don't learn the language of your host country, are opposed to its culture, live in a parallel culture and therefore don't integrate at all, your economic situation will obviously suck, therefore leading to more immigrant crime as well.
Until we as a society are able to see that problem and implement measures against it, without resorting to ridiculous right-wing xenophobia of course, multi-culturalism won't really work.

I was going to bring up language, but I think that really depends on the area. In a rural area (as opposed to a metropolitan one), it's pretty easy to not integrate at all and get by with your own little isolated area. Learning the language is definitely helpful though. I also think that it's impossible not to assimilate to some degree if you live in a more populated area due to how massively influenced people are by their surroundings.

grindy · 07-01-2016, 11:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

This is why I brought up how important it is to enforce the laws.

I was going to bring up language, but I think that really depends on the area. In a rural area (instead of a metropolitan one), it's pretty easy to not integrate at all and get by with your own little isolated area. Learning the language is definitely helpful though. I also think that it's impossible not to assimilate to some degree if you live in a more populated area due to how massively influenced people are by their surroundings.

It's actually the other way around. You have to interact with locals a lot when living in a thinly populated area, but in big cities there are big parallel societies of immigrants and you can go by without knowing a word of German. And there are actually certain parts of certain towns where there's a certain risk of getting attacked because you don't look foreign.

**Frownland** · 07-01-2016, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by grindy

It's actually the other way around. You have to interact with locals a lot when living in a thinly populated area, but in big cities there are big parallel societies of immigrants and you can go by without knowing a word of German.

Interesting. I was going off of my experience having lived in both settings.

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And there are actually certain parts of certain towns where there's a certain risk of getting attacked because you don't look foreign.

Obviously unacceptable and illegal, which is why we reprimand that behaviour to stifle it.

grindy · 07-01-2016, 11:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Interesting. I was going off of my experience having lived in both settings.

Obviously unacceptable and illegal, which is why we reprimand that behaviour to stifle it.

But the reprimands don't do much. Not to mention that crimes like random beatings on the street have a notoriously low rate of being solved. That kind of **** has to be prevented by properly promoting and demanding integration into the host culture.

**Frownland** · 07-01-2016, 11:37 AM

Like "don't break the law or we'll **** you up"? Ja, I agree.

William_the_Bloody · 07-01-2016, 11:40 AM

Well I've step into a sensitive issue, I was merely venting my frustration at Brexit, but yes I've had a growing axe to grind on this issue over the last few years.

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Originally Posted by Goofle

Douglas Murray is based.

Based, is this a bad thing? I must confess I'm quite taken with him. When I became a disillusioned liberal he was the key figure in marching me over to the right on this issue.

I love the pissed off interview he had with Al Jazeera

and his brilliant take down of Julian Assange...

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Originally Posted by Janszoon

I think you do need to look up the stats if you're going make claims like that.

Allright I will, I must confess I've been influenced a great deal by the European press and key events that have happened in England and Germany.

There is some difficulty as a result of laws in some countries forbidding collecting data based on ethnicity, but if I'm wrong, I'll retract my statements, and perhaps even my opinion on the issue.

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Multiculturalism sprouts no unique problems from monoculturalism. People just have a knack for being ****y. Don't confuse the issue.

Also I've lived in LA, which is one of the most diverse places in the world, and I've had little problem with the scary "others".

EDIT: I'll note that I agree on assimilating to a conventional culture for immigrants, but I think that we already accomplish that through laws (ideally). Think it's okay to molest somebody? We have a law for that. Want to kill someone for their beliefs? We have a law for that. Enforcement is occasionally an issue but that problem lies with the police force and government, not multiculturalism itself.

Los Angeles's cultural diversity is largely a result of a large influx of Hispanics over the last few decades, and unless you want to make the argument that they are more statist or socialist in nature, multiculturalism doesn't enter into the equation.

They're are westernized Catholics who work hard and assimilate. Were talking about multiculturalism not multiracialism!!!

grindy · 07-01-2016, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Like "don't break the law or we'll **** you up"? Ja, I agree.

More like not letting in tons of people from backwards patriarchal cultures who are strongly opposed to ours and have a propensity for crime and violence, demanding to learn the language and to integrate from those who are let in and deporting those who clearly break the rules.
I'm not just pointing fingers at middle eastern and northern african people btw, my fellow eastern europeans are often just as problematic.

**Frownland** · 07-01-2016, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody

Los Angeles's cultural diversity is largely a result of a large influx of Hispanics over the last few decades, and unless you want to make the argument that they are more statist or socialist in nature, multiculturalism doesn't enter into the equation.

They're are westernized Catholics who work hard and assimilate. Were talking about multiculturalism not multiracialism!!!

Lmfao not always dude. You're also forgetting about the huge number of Asians we have here.

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Originally Posted by grindy

More like not letting in tons of people from backwards patriarchal cultures who are strongly opposed to ours and have a propensity for crime and violence, demanding to learn the language and to integrate from those who are let in and deporting those who clearly break the rules.
I'm not just pointing fingers at middle eastern and northern african people btw, my fellow eastern europeans are often just as problematic.

A lot of this just sounds like enforcing the law and having sensible vetting in cases where there is mass immigration (like the refugees).

grindy · 07-01-2016, 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Lmfao not always dude. You're also forgetting about the huge number of Asians we have here.

A lot of this just sounds like enforcing the law and having sensible vetting in cases where there is mass immigration (like the refugees).

Well yeah, but that's where multi-culturalist ideology comes into play. Because those problems are being ignored or marginalised and laws addressing them are being voted against on the grounds of apparently being racist.

**Frownland** · 07-01-2016, 12:08 PM

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Originally Posted by grindy

Well yeah, but that's where multi-culturalist ideology comes into play. Because those problems are being ignored or marginalised and laws addressing them are being voted against on the grounds of apparently being racist.

Which brings us back to my earlier point that yes, there is a point where multiculturalism can reach absurdity, but that doesn't mean that multiculturalism in itself is absurd.

07-01-2016, 11:37 AM	#395 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Like "don't break the law or we'll **** you up"? Ja, I agree. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x