Brexit? Yay or Nay.

Zhanteimi · 06-24-2016, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You said the EU was evil.

It is, but if the UK has voted to stay in it, that's their sovereign right to choose their own fate.

Zhanteimi · 06-24-2016, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

This decision to leave was based solely on people's hatred for Muslims I feel. Xenophobia at an all time high.

Islam and Western democracy are incompatible.

**Janszoon** · 06-24-2016, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

It is, but if the UK has voted to stay in it, that's their sovereign right to choose their own fate.

So it's evil but it's not a bad thing? Interesting.

Anyway, of course they have the right to vote, that's not under debate here. The very topic of this thread assumes they have the right to vote.

Zhanteimi · 06-24-2016, 07:17 AM

Everyone has the freedom to choose evil if they wish. As for the topic of this thread, they chose to do the right thing. Leaving the EU is the right choice.

**Frownland** · 06-24-2016, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

Islam and Western democracy are incompatible.

Lol no sir.

**Janszoon** · 06-24-2016, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

Everyone has the freedom to choose evil if they wish. As for the topic of this thread, they chose to do the right thing. Leaving the EU is the right choice.

I guess time will tell. I don't think it's a case of good versus evil either way.

djchameleon · 06-24-2016, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

Islam and Western democracy are incompatible.

Say what?

Go on, I'd like to hear more about this incompatibility.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 06-24-2016, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

This decision to leave was based solely on people's hatred for Muslims I feel. Xenophobia at an all time high.

Literally what I just said to my dad right now. I think people have had enough, see Paris, Brussels etc and have voted to 'close the borders'.

The Batlord · 06-24-2016, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

Islam and Western democracy are incompatible.

This isn't an opinion so much about Islam as about religion in general, but I do partly agree with this. I think people credit advances in science and education with the decline of religion, but a large part of that might also be the rise of democracies. People have become used to not relying on an all-powerful monarch to run their lives and protect them, and religion has steadily declined during that time period.

Think of the people who fight so hard for authoritarian issues under the guise of democracy, like those opposed to civil rights in the sixties, or abortion and gay rights, and what do many of them have in common? Conservative religion. And the people on the other side are generally far more secular.

Not saying muslims and christians are actually anti-democracy, but I think the more religious one is the more likely they are to espouse beliefs that are closer to authoritarianism than those more secular.

Lisnaholic · 06-24-2016, 09:45 AM

Well, I didn't expect the Brexit boys to win - it's such a huge change to Britain after 43(?) years that it's difficult to imagine what will happen next. Unfortunately words like "uncertainty", "volatile" and "falling pound" have a way of quickly translating into closed businesses and unemployment, and that means real hardship. Sovereignty is a fine notion, but for someone without a job it's pretty cold comfort.

Of course the EU isn't evil, but it has a very unwieldy bureaucracy, and I have a low opinion of bureaucrats. Whatever else they are up to, they always make sure that they survive and prosper. In the case of the EU, I remember when Britain, with much trepidation, joined up, and at that time it was a manageable club of just 7 countries. Now it's a group of 27 countries which requires ever more bureaucrats, struggling to impose a unity of which, at times, there is little evidence on the ground . What we once joined and what we are now leaving is no longer the same animal.

So this morning, like Monkey, I am stunned - and at the moment I feel more worried than proud.

06-24-2016, 07:17 AM	#234 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	Everyone has the freedom to choose evil if they wish. As for the topic of this thread, they chose to do the right thing. Leaving the EU is the right choice. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic

06-24-2016, 09:45 AM	#240 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	Well, I didn't expect the Brexit boys to win - it's such a huge change to Britain after 43(?) years that it's difficult to imagine what will happen next. Unfortunately words like "uncertainty", "volatile" and "falling pound" have a way of quickly translating into closed businesses and unemployment, and that means real hardship. Sovereignty is a fine notion, but for someone without a job it's pretty cold comfort. Of course the EU isn't evil, but it has a very unwieldy bureaucracy, and I have a low opinion of bureaucrats. Whatever else they are up to, they always make sure that they survive and prosper. In the case of the EU, I remember when Britain, with much trepidation, joined up, and at that time it was a manageable club of just 7 countries. Now it's a group of 27 countries which requires ever more bureaucrats, struggling to impose a unity of which, at times, there is little evidence on the ground . What we once joined and what we are now leaving is no longer the same animal. So this morning, like Monkey, I am stunned - and at the moment I feel more worried than proud. __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953