The AI Singularity and Transhumanism

riseagainstrocks · 08-01-2017, 01:05 PM

Interesting thread. Really enjoyed Neapolitan's and innerspaceboy's posts on the first page.

I actually had the 'importing of consciousness to a computer - is it you?' conversation somewhat recently. I'm of the opinion that organic responses to stimuli are what link the brain to reality and without capturing that, you're really just 'backing-up' your experience up to the point at which the procedure occurs. The idea of living in a purely mental world, unbounded by the body's needs, is fascinating, however. As a general pessimist, I subscribe to the Golden Throne theory of artificial life extension (from Warhammer 40k). Essentially, the Emperor has lived in a realm of pure mind for the past 10,000 years and his humanity is completely stripped (side note for 40K fans, TIME OF ENDING - SO COOL!); this does not bode well for the trillions living in the Imperium. The drudgery of human existence, cooking food, walking down a crowded street, small talk with family, going to work; all of these things constantly reinforce an understanding of the transience of existence and engender empathy for our fellow man. I'm not sure how HAL 9000 (or I guess in my case, RAR 9000) would relate to humanity once stripped of its requirements.

A slower integration of mechanical/digital organs/synapses raises a different set of philosophical questions. I have yet to see Ghost in the Shell (either the anime or the apparently terrible recent film), but I understand it's more or less exclusively about the Ship of Theseus paradox (plus violence). Ship of Theseus

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

A slower integration of mechanical/digital organs/synapses raises a different set of philosophical questions. I have yet to see Ghost in the Shell (either the anime or the apparently terrible recent film), but I understand it's more or less exclusively about the Ship of Theseus paradox (plus violence). Ship of Theseus

As long as the brain hasn't been replaced then it shouldn't matter. You can upgrade or augment certain parts of the brain I suppose, as I'm not really concerned with the nature of my consciousness so much as its continuance.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

As per the ship of thesus it seems as if unless you believe in a soul a conscience computer code you would be you

But to my mind and I suspect to most people's minds that just feels like it can not possibly be true

So Idk

Well if your brain were replaced bit by bit without ever having to transfer consciousness to a third-party cyberbrain thing then I guess you might be okay and not replaced by binary clone.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'm not sure why it should matter if it's an all at once change or an over time replacement

Physically you are made of none of the matter you were a decade or so ago as far as I understand it

Exactly. My (and I'm assuming everyone else's) threshold for yes/no on human+ is whether the consciousness I had before has ceased to exist and unknowingly been replaced with a duplicate. Whether the consciousness that I was born with ceased to exist without my knowledge somewhere during my body's replacement of my cells over the years is related obviously, but so long as I don't notice I suppose it's a moot point, cause wuddaya gon' do? Same idea as Star Trek teleportation.

And I don't know how you would define consciousness in the sense of it being a continuous process throughout an organism's life though, which is where the uncertainty comes in.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I have no idea what consciousness is

But I think to say we are just chemicals in the brain leaves a lot to be desired as none of those chemicals remain very long

It seems to me we are more a blueprint shaped by our experiences and genetics

And so if you replicate the blueprint is it something seperate from or a continuation of a concioussness?

I have yet to find a satisfactory answer in either direction

We are the result of an emergent process created by the different cells in your body joining together to maximize survivability. "You" exist as an avatar to better collect resources and reproduce for the collective. That's pretty much it no matter how you elevate it.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

No I agree with that, and I am a Naturalist

But those cells are not your concioussness they are replaced anyhow

your everday experiences will influence the ones that replace them

There's nothing you can point to in the brain and say "that is you"

In fact I could almost not be the same concioussness that I was yesterday

Consider how much of how you perceive the world is based off of what your eyes see. Or from what you hear. Or how much your perception of the world can change based on mental disease. Our minds are not necessarily coherent but they are logical in a certain sense. I'm kinda high right now btw.

**Frownland** · 08-01-2017, 07:33 PM

Consciousness is the decision to smoke weed every day.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Consciousness is the decision to smoke weed every day.

Does an involuntary reflex count as consciousness?

**Frownland** · 08-01-2017, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Does an involuntary reflex count as consciousness?

Puking is not consciousness, no.

The Batlord · 08-01-2017, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Puking is not consciousness, no.

I should hope not, or else that'd be as cruel to myself as god himself.

08-01-2017, 01:05 PM	#71 (permalink)
riseagainstrocks Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DC Posts: 3,320	Interesting thread. Really enjoyed Neapolitan's and innerspaceboy's posts on the first page. I actually had the 'importing of consciousness to a computer - is it you?' conversation somewhat recently. I'm of the opinion that organic responses to stimuli are what link the brain to reality and without capturing that, you're really just 'backing-up' your experience up to the point at which the procedure occurs. The idea of living in a purely mental world, unbounded by the body's needs, is fascinating, however. As a general pessimist, I subscribe to the Golden Throne theory of artificial life extension (from Warhammer 40k). Essentially, the Emperor has lived in a realm of pure mind for the past 10,000 years and his humanity is completely stripped (side note for 40K fans, TIME OF ENDING - SO COOL!); this does not bode well for the trillions living in the Imperium. The drudgery of human existence, cooking food, walking down a crowded street, small talk with family, going to work; all of these things constantly reinforce an understanding of the transience of existence and engender empathy for our fellow man. I'm not sure how HAL 9000 (or I guess in my case, RAR 9000) would relate to humanity once stripped of its requirements. A slower integration of mechanical/digital organs/synapses raises a different set of philosophical questions. I have yet to see Ghost in the Shell (either the anime or the apparently terrible recent film), but I understand it's more or less exclusively about the Ship of Theseus paradox (plus violence). Ship of Theseus __________________ One note timeless, came out of nowhere...

08-01-2017, 07:33 PM	#77 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Consciousness is the decision to smoke weed every day. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x