Christmas 2015

RoxyRollah · 12-17-2015, 12:23 PM

I dont wanna grow up Im a Toys R Us kid..now bring me a pony.

Chula Vista · 12-17-2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

I dont wanna grow up Im a Toys R Us kid..now bring me a pony.

I let it go the first time. Now I can't help myself.

Trollheart · 12-17-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

What negativity would it cause? Before you learn, it makes life less boring and antiseptic, afterwards you feel almost like you've gone through a rite of passage, where before you were a "little kid" and now you're a "big kid". A false rite, perhaps, but all childhood rites of passage are bull**** in the end anyway.

Exactly. EVERYONE in my family was brought up believing in Santa, and it no more damaged us mentally, psychologically or in any other way than it turned us into ten-armed monsters. Really, Plankton: back up your claim. I don't know anyone who grew up maladjusted ** because they were told Santa was real.

** This does not apply to Batty of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Fuck is my pony?

Here you go honey. Happy Christmas! Santa knows you were a good girl (or at least, he doesn't know otherwise...)

[img]

**Frownland** · 12-17-2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Really, Plankton: back up your claim. I don't know anyone who grew up maladjusted ** because they were told Santa was real.

You've already answered your own question.

Quote:

EVERYONE in my family was brought up believing in Santa.

Plankton · 12-17-2015, 01:59 PM

Back up my claim? Ok.

I'll let D.K. Johnson do most of the 'backing up' though.

From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...anta-claus-lie

Quote:

The Santa Lie should be avoided for three reasons. (1) It’s an unjustified lie, (2) it risks damaging your parental trustworthiness and (3) it encourages credulity and ill-motivated behavior.

Quote:

The Santa Lie—does not actually promote imagination or imaginative play. Imagination involves pretending, and to pretend that something exists, one has to believe that thing doesn’t exist. Does the Christian “imagine” that Jesus rose from the dead? Does the Muslim “imagine” that Muhammad’s rode his horse Barack (Al Boraq) at lightening speed from Mecca to Jerusalem and then assended into heaven? Of course not; they believe these things are true. Tricking a child into literally believing that Santa exists doesn’t encourage imagination, it actually stifles it. If you really want to encourage imagination in your children, tell them that Santa doesn’t exist, but that you are going to pretend like he does anyway on Christmas morning.

It's really an interesting read. Here's more from his blog:

AgainstTheSantaLie: Hate Mail From My Op-Ed

Having a daughter myself, I never pushed Santa onto her, nor did I discourage the idea, I let her figure it out for herself. Over those years where everyone around her would perpetuate the fantasy, I'd always steer her in the direction towards the truth. I never signed her presents "From Santa", and I didn't play into all the rituals that go along with it. I merely waited for her to see things as they really are. Our relationship is very strong, and she is an extremely well balance human being. Not only because of the fact that I wouldn't play into the Santa farce, but my whole outlook on parenting is to teach her the truth, love, compassion, and understanding. I've never told her to stop doing something "Because i said so", I'd always explain things to her and try to understand her outlook on things rather than force my will upon her. I can only explain my situation though, and why I feel this way. You, Trollheart, and even Batlord for that matter, have your own experiences and a lot of what you believe is wrapped up in what you were taught by your parents.

Trollheart · 12-17-2015, 02:05 PM

Right. Obviously you are free to bring your kids up how you like, believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny, even Jesus or Frownland, or not. However, you should also respect my right, and that of others like me, to accept that we were brought up in that way and that there was nothing wrong with it. I like you, as you know, you're a friend, but this is getting close to insulting behaviour when you use such strong words as lies and deception, and you're beginning to dishonour the memory of my late mother by intimating she, and other parents like her, lied to their kids.

So, studies can **** off, I don't care. Someone will always have an opinion about everything. In Ireland, we were all brought up to believe in SAnta. It did us no harm. It's Christmas and this is treading on ground too dark and sombre for this season, so I will ask you, as a friend, to please just accept that different people are brought up different ways. It doesn't make any difference to how they turn out, at least it's not the sole factor. I am asking you nicely to drop it. We all know Santa is not real, but for many of us he was an integral part of our childhood, and it's not nice to have that taken apart just because someone doesn't believe in it for their kids.

It's the season of goodwill, so let's spread some. Deal?

Plankton · 12-17-2015, 02:09 PM

Good grief dude. You asked me to back up my claim.

**Frownland** · 12-17-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

So, studies can **** off, I don't care. Someone will always have an opinion about everything.

But studies are done to circumvent opinion. If they didn't (well, some don't but that's bad research), they would be called think-pieces, not studies.

Also the whole "well I turned out fine!" argument is silly because you have no idea what would have happened if you had been brought up differently. Not to mention that we approach everything with our own set of biases that can make you think that everything's dandy when in reality you've just grown to be fine with something that isn't that great.

Trollheart · 12-17-2015, 02:19 PM

I merely have a problem with the inference that my parents lied to me in order to deceive me. They didn't. It's the same as them telling me there's a God when they don't know for sure. It's what was done at the time. Is it done now, here? Probably, for very young children, although fewer will be fooled. Does it hurt in the least? No. I'm taking issue with your (Plankton's) rather grim assertion that it comes back on you in later life. It never has for me. Of course I don't know how I would have turned out had I been told there was no Santa. Maybe I might have had a less creative imagination. Maybe I would have refused to believe it and resented my parents for destroying the illusion. But I never did, and never will, resent them for pretending, and I see no harm in it.

As I said, it's turning the whole thread into darker corners than I would like, so I'd prefer that we agree to disagree and just leave it at that. I'm sure you can understand, and appreciate that your claims are making me angry and hurt, although I know they're not intended that way, at all. Nevertheless, it's a subject I would prefer to be shelved and move on to other aspects of Christmas.

**Frownland** · 12-17-2015, 02:24 PM

Not telling the truth = lying, but lying isn't inherently evil.
Telling something that's not true to someone and they believe it = deception, but again, not inherently evil.
What I'm reading is you getting offended at these two terms because you have negative associations with them. Try not to do that and you'll be fine.

So unknot your panties and sing a Christmas carol. This one's on me.

12-17-2015, 02:05 PM	#86 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Right. Obviously you are free to bring your kids up how you like, believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny, even Jesus or Frownland, or not. However, you should also respect my right, and that of others like me, to accept that we were brought up in that way and that there was nothing wrong with it. I like you, as you know, you're a friend, but this is getting close to insulting behaviour when you use such strong words as lies and deception, and you're beginning to dishonour the memory of my late mother by intimating she, and other parents like her, lied to their kids. So, studies can **** off, I don't care. Someone will always have an opinion about everything. In Ireland, we were all brought up to believe in SAnta. It did us no harm. It's Christmas and this is treading on ground too dark and sombre for this season, so I will ask you, as a friend, to please just accept that different people are brought up different ways. It doesn't make any difference to how they turn out, at least it's not the sole factor. I am asking you nicely to drop it. We all know Santa is not real, but for many of us he was an integral part of our childhood, and it's not nice to have that taken apart just because someone doesn't believe in it for their kids. It's the season of goodwill, so let's spread some. Deal? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

12-17-2015, 02:09 PM	#87 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	Good grief dude. You asked me to back up my claim. __________________ See location...

12-17-2015, 02:19 PM	#89 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	I merely have a problem with the inference that my parents lied to me in order to deceive me. They didn't. It's the same as them telling me there's a God when they don't know for sure. It's what was done at the time. Is it done now, here? Probably, for very young children, although fewer will be fooled. Does it hurt in the least? No. I'm taking issue with your (Plankton's) rather grim assertion that it comes back on you in later life. It never has for me. Of course I don't know how I would have turned out had I been told there was no Santa. Maybe I might have had a less creative imagination. Maybe I would have refused to believe it and resented my parents for destroying the illusion. But I never did, and never will, resent them for pretending, and I see no harm in it. As I said, it's turning the whole thread into darker corners than I would like, so I'd prefer that we agree to disagree and just leave it at that. I'm sure you can understand, and appreciate that your claims are making me angry and hurt, although I know they're not intended that way, at all. Nevertheless, it's a subject I would prefer to be shelved and move on to other aspects of Christmas. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

12-17-2015, 02:24 PM	#90 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Not telling the truth = lying, but lying isn't inherently evil. Telling something that's not true to someone and they believe it = deception, but again, not inherently evil. What I'm reading is you getting offended at these two terms because you have negative associations with them. Try not to do that and you'll be fine. So unknot your panties and sing a Christmas carol. This one's on me. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x