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Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody
I don't know anything about FAIR other than that they have been called to testify in front of the United States Congress on immigration bills & are cited in many mainstream news sources. However, if its being cited by the Southern Poverty Law Center, its probably complete bull$hit.
"The Southern Poverty Law Center is a highly political far left organization that has written for Communist newspapers in the United States. They have faced lawsuits for delibertly expanding their hate list group to include anyone who opposes immigration." I imagine Trump is next.
I am the furthest thing from an evangelical Christian, but these guys do a good job on the SPLC.
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I mean it doesn't really matter that they're cited in the mainstream press if they take money from neo-Nazis, and maybe it's no coincidence that the groups who are virulently opposed to immigration tend to be racist hate groups. But since I'm giving you independent reasons why the evidence you get from FAIR is wrong, it doesn't really matter whether either they or the SPLC are a good source.
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Oh I am sorry, maybe it was because I was responding in part, to this little ideological ditty below, "Americans" lol.
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So... still no response. Cool.
I question some of these too - Townhall and the Daily Caller are very ideological publications, about.com isn't really very serious, The Odyssey says it's crowdsourced journalism (so this is just a random person talking) and that article only cites the same FAIR report anyway, and as for that WaPo piece, this is the first paragraph:
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A report that found that illegal immigrants in the United States cost the federal government more than $10 billion a year -- a sum it estimated would almost triple if they were given amnesty -- has drawn criticism from immigration advocacy groups[...]
"The costs of the children of immigrants are accounted for [in the report], but not their contributions to the economy as workers and taxpayers."
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So this isn't just "I have evidence and you evidence," because your evidence has serious methodological problems.
Anyway, the solution, once again, is further liberalization. Look to
this report, which says that if we had a better path to citizenship, our economy would benefit in a huge number of ways - debt would decrease, additional spending would create jobs, wages go up, a bunch more. The links to some actual studies are in there as well.
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I didn't refuse to provide evidence, I was merely a passing ship in the night, but since you've decided to make a big deal about it, here's what it is doing to African Americans. I can provide more if you like, I can also give you personal testimony of what it's done to unskilled workers, because unlike you, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth!
Black Americans: The True Casualties of Amnesty | National Review Online
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That first study I linked says that other studies which conclude the other way don't take a holistic enough view of the economy. I can check to see whether it mentions your study by name, but again, your methodology is flawed regardless. I don't mean to discount your personal experiences, but if we're trying to figure out whether there's a net decrease in wages, the fact that you've seen people lose jobs is a little less important.
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I stand by this because I fought against your ilk when I was in left wing parties for yeeeaarrrrsss. i fought for poor whites, First Nations & blacks, because I know what the grind of poverty is like, you do it because you were bullied in high school and hold animosity to your own culture, your all about political ideology no matter who it hurts. Middle class liberals have completely hijacked working class parties in the west with their own agenda, you ruined the Labour Party in the UK.
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Okay, good for you. You sound like a cool person, and I mean that sincerely. I don't really understand "animosity to my own culture"? Maybe I just have beliefs that are different from yours.
So, in sum, you give two reasons why immigration is bad. First is increased government spending. I tell you that even if this is true:
1. We ought to be spending money on social services anyway
2. This isn't causing tax increases
3. This isn't the place where we should be making cuts
Second is depressed wages. I tell you that even if this is true:
1. This is a short term problem
2. A lot more people are getting jobs, which is good
I also tell you that it's not true and that the economic consensus, when looking at all sectors of the economy, is that native workers - even uneducated native workers - benefit.
But finally, you completely ignore the argument I keep making that further liberalization solves both of these problems by allowing undocumented immigrants to fully participate in the economy, increasing spending and creating jobs, and by keeping employers from threatening undocumented immigrants and getting away with wage theft. The solution isn't "Build a wall," it's "Treat people better when they're here."
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