Is humanity hard-wired for war and conflict?

OccultHawk · 08-02-2015, 11:48 PM

Carl Sagan deals with this question. He says our brains have over 3 billion years worth of evolution that is hard wired toward destructiveness. However, since we also have an awareness of our ability to destroy and the intellect to see the advantages of not destroying ourselves the situation is not hopeless. He says it's important for humankind to understand our evolutionary origins and to not forget we're basically alligators with hydrogen bombs. By understanding that, he says, we may be able to show restraint and get through this very dangerous era of our development.

Mr. Charlie · 08-03-2015, 11:07 AM

One only need look inside their heart to realise the answer is no.

Chula Vista · 08-03-2015, 11:32 AM

It's not humanity.

It's the ****ing idiots that are put into positions of power by the stupidity of the masses.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 08-03-2015, 01:58 PM

you have to look at actions as much as words. iranian politicians use inflammatory rhetoric to control a population that they keep under totalitarian rule, very much like the nazis, soviets, maoists, etc did before them. ultimately though, iran has demonstrated that they are a largely rational actor on the geopolitical plane. they act with the same strategic interests as every other geopolitical entity vying for power, and though this might seem counter intuitive, there is actually a bit of stability to be gained from that relentless mutual competition.

in other words.. the only real inclination that would lead any iranian in power to want to spark an actual nuclear war with isreal is religiously/culturally based, not based on geopolitical constraints such as territory, resources, etc. they resist the religious impulse for holy war based on their real world geopolitical interests. otherwise, if iran were solely determined to develop a nuke and nuke israel, they would have already done so. there is nothing really stopping them. they have the technological capability, the economic ability, etc. they really don't even need the west to lift the sanctions... the sanctions would never stop them from getting a nuke if getting a nuke was their only concern. yet they entered into a deal with the west to let UN inspectors in return for lifting the sanctions. why? because yea having a nuke is a nice piece of geopolitical leverage, but in this case their geopolitical opponents are making it so that a getting a nuke is less important than repairing their economy through lifting the sanctions.

Trollheart · 08-03-2015, 02:39 PM

It's a nice rational and reasonable explanation, and you put it across very well. I hope you're right.

Mr. Charlie · 08-03-2015, 04:53 PM

If it was hard wired then everybody would create war and conflict. But that is not the case.

Trollheart · 08-03-2015, 04:57 PM

Nah, read my OP. I asked if humanity as an organism is hardwired to the idea of conflict, ie we need it to survive. I'm not saying that we're programmed to fight each other; that would be ridiculous. There'd be fights breaking out all over. I'm saying we can never have, nor achieve, true peace because it is in our DNA that we have to compete, fight, best one another and wars are part of our natural makeup.

Mr. Charlie · 08-03-2015, 05:22 PM

It's education, conditioning, culture, judgmements, ideas, our own ego, that lead to conflict. And all that stuff can be likened to software running on a computer (which in this case is the human brain). We're hardwired (built) to be alive, to feel and sense, to be aware.

Trollheart · 08-03-2015, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

It's education, conditioning, culture, judgmements, ideas, our own ego, that lead to conflict. And all that stuff can be likened to software running on a computer (which in this case is the human brain). We're hardwired (built) to be alive, to feel and sense, to be aware.

Yeah, you're just not getting it. Never mind. Whatever. Most others here know what I mean.

OccultHawk · 08-03-2015, 06:02 PM

Trollheart,

I think you might be being a little unfairly dismissive of his answer.

Organized warfare didn't take place until King Sargon in Mesopotamia just 12,000 years ago. Maybe someone will post another example but it's something like that. Then you have all the non-human life on earth that also doesn't have warfare in the contemporary human sense. So with that short a time on the evolutionary scale doesn't it make sense that involvement in warfare is more something that is "soft-wired" or learned instead of something that's deeply embedded in our DNA? It seems like that's a fair answer to your question...

08-03-2015, 11:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	It's not humanity. It's the ****ing idiots that are put into positions of power by the stupidity of the masses. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

08-03-2015, 02:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	It's a nice rational and reasonable explanation, and you put it across very well. I hope you're right. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-03-2015, 04:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Nah, read my OP. I asked if humanity as an organism is hardwired to the idea of conflict, ie we need it to survive. I'm not saying that we're programmed to fight each other; that would be ridiculous. There'd be fights breaking out all over. I'm saying we can never have, nor achieve, true peace because it is in our DNA that we have to compete, fight, best one another and wars are part of our natural makeup. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

08-02-2015, 11:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Carl Sagan deals with this question. He says our brains have over 3 billion years worth of evolution that is hard wired toward destructiveness. However, since we also have an awareness of our ability to destroy and the intellect to see the advantages of not destroying ourselves the situation is not hopeless. He says it's important for humankind to understand our evolutionary origins and to not forget we're basically alligators with hydrogen bombs. By understanding that, he says, we may be able to show restraint and get through this very dangerous era of our development.

08-03-2015, 11:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	One only need look inside their heart to realise the answer is no.

08-03-2015, 01:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	you have to look at actions as much as words. iranian politicians use inflammatory rhetoric to control a population that they keep under totalitarian rule, very much like the nazis, soviets, maoists, etc did before them. ultimately though, iran has demonstrated that they are a largely rational actor on the geopolitical plane. they act with the same strategic interests as every other geopolitical entity vying for power, and though this might seem counter intuitive, there is actually a bit of stability to be gained from that relentless mutual competition. in other words.. the only real inclination that would lead any iranian in power to want to spark an actual nuclear war with isreal is religiously/culturally based, not based on geopolitical constraints such as territory, resources, etc. they resist the religious impulse for holy war based on their real world geopolitical interests. otherwise, if iran were solely determined to develop a nuke and nuke israel, they would have already done so. there is nothing really stopping them. they have the technological capability, the economic ability, etc. they really don't even need the west to lift the sanctions... the sanctions would never stop them from getting a nuke if getting a nuke was their only concern. yet they entered into a deal with the west to let UN inspectors in return for lifting the sanctions. why? because yea having a nuke is a nice piece of geopolitical leverage, but in this case their geopolitical opponents are making it so that a getting a nuke is less important than repairing their economy through lifting the sanctions.

08-03-2015, 04:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	If it was hard wired then everybody would create war and conflict. But that is not the case.

08-03-2015, 05:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	It's education, conditioning, culture, judgmements, ideas, our own ego, that lead to conflict. And all that stuff can be likened to software running on a computer (which in this case is the human brain). We're hardwired (built) to be alive, to feel and sense, to be aware.

08-03-2015, 06:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Trollheart, I think you might be being a little unfairly dismissive of his answer. Organized warfare didn't take place until King Sargon in Mesopotamia just 12,000 years ago. Maybe someone will post another example but it's something like that. Then you have all the non-human life on earth that also doesn't have warfare in the contemporary human sense. So with that short a time on the evolutionary scale doesn't it make sense that involvement in warfare is more something that is "soft-wired" or learned instead of something that's deeply embedded in our DNA? It seems like that's a fair answer to your question...