U.S. Supreme Court legalizes nationwide gay marriage

DwnWthVwls · 06-29-2015, 08:55 PM

Yes I understand that, but you made it about credibility when you started spewing non-sense about straight people not having the right to celebrate this triumph in human rights.

grtwhtgrvty · 06-29-2015, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Yes I understand that, but you made it about credibility when you started spewing non-sense about straight people not having the right to celebrate this triumph in human rights.

I'd like to see the receipts.

Josef K · 06-29-2015, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I don't believe in gay rights, black rights, women rights.. I believe in human rights.

and can you tell me how liberating concentration camps is different from a straight person going to LGBTQ+ rallies and events to support them? Straight people have actively made changes and put in work to get the LGBTQ+ community the rights they deserve and you're trying to tell me they deserve less credit than gay people because they aren't gay?

I didn't say that. I think there are lots of individual straight people who have done good things for the gay rights movement. At the point where they're contributing something unique - coming up with legal strategy, lobbying politicians, even, yes, going to rallies and events, whatever - they absolutely deserve credit for that. But I think that's the distinction you're missing. Maybe a straight person deserves credit for taking time out of their day to do stuff like go to rallies, or to do all the other things I mentioned above, but they don't deserve gratitude just for believing that gay people have a right to exist and to live happy, equal lives.

This liberating concentration camps analogy is absurd though. When going to a rally and maybe holding a flag comes with as much cost as, you know, fighting in World War II, maybe I'll buy that argument. Not to say those actions aren't worthy of praise at all, I guess, but it's not the same.

ETA: Reading the posts of yours that got in ahead of me, I don't think we substantially disagree. I maybe would have phrased that initial post differently though.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 06-29-2015, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

See, I wouldn't call SCOTUS decision autocratic at all - they were voting in the interest of the majority. I still feel like your vision is black and white, even if not technically a false dilemma or possibly that your definition of autocracy is oversimplified.

did they vote in favor of gay marriage because that's what the majority supports? if the majority didn't support gay marriage, do you think the supreme court should have banned it instead?

as for my view being oversimplified... haters gon hate.

reread my initial post and you'll see i said "i think this sort of demonstrates my point" not "this is a clear cut case of autocracy at work." in fact the main distinction between the type of "representative democracy/republic" that the U.S. is set up to be, and a pure democracy like you seem to think i was saying the U.S. is, is that our form of govt explicitly injected a bit more centralized/federal control (i.e. autocracy or plutocracy) in order to protect us from 'too much democracy' (i.e. mob rule).

DwnWthVwls · 06-29-2015, 08:59 PM

Josef you're still not getting it. I didn't say they deserve gratitude for their beliefs. I said they deserve gratitude for their contributions. Everyone who contributed deserves gratitude. Gay, straight, trans, two-spirit, gender fluid. If you actively made this happen the people you fought for should be grateful for your contributions, and you should be giving yourself a pat on the back as well.

and here's your receipt Gravity:

Quote:

It's not your problem, so why are you coming to a celebratory thread and citing these homophobic things that actually trigger and affect actual gay people negatively, and have no actual effect on you.

Josef K · 06-29-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Josef your still not getting it. I didn't say they deserve gratitude for their beliefs. I said they deserve gratitude for their contributions.

and here's your receipt Gravity:

Yeah fair enough - see my edit.

grtwhtgrvty · 06-29-2015, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Josef you're still not getting it. I didn't say they deserve gratitude for their beliefs. I said they deserve gratitude for their contributions.

and here's your receipt Gravity:

Literally what. I can quote random sentences too out of context.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtwhtgrvty

It's not about credit. It's about suffering. That's my entire point. All I wanted was for straight people to stop needlessly referencing homophobia in a thread that was supposed to be celebratory, because they haven't suffered in that context and it's not their place to perpetuate anti-gay commentary in such a context. And in return I was told that I'm ungrateful, straight-hating, and suffering from dementia.

READ.

DwnWthVwls · 06-29-2015, 09:05 PM

Without knowing people on a personal level you have no idea how gay rights violations have affected anyone's personal life.

grtwhtgrvty · 06-29-2015, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Without knowing people on a personal level you have no idea how gay rights violations have affected anyone's personal life.

Yeah the straight man who talks about his sex life with his wife constantly and called me autistic totally has dealt with the hardships of being gay. Do you even realize all of the psychological bull**** gay pepole go through from the second they realize they are gay? There's a reason the suicide rates are so high.

DwnWthVwls · 06-29-2015, 09:11 PM

What does that have to do with what I said? You can argue with Chula about that, it doesn't negate my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K

Yeah fair enough - see my edit.