chopinisawesome

My beliefs are that killing babies is wrong. Period. I am sorry, but this is something I won't budge on.

The Batlord

Well good, then you're not opposed to terminating zygotes and fetuses.

__________________

chopinisawesome

So... then how do you discern when a zygote or a fetus is a baby?

At the moment of conception, a new, unique human life is formed. There is no other DNA in the world like that cell that was just created. Therefore, it is a new human being, not just a mass of tissue.

Frownland

Zygotes and fetuses aren't babies, they're zygotes and fetuses. Generally the shift from fetus to baby occurs during the birthing process.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

chopinisawesome

Then give me the exact time it is now a baby. What if the baby is born early? Can it be aborted, since it is not technically fully mature? What if it is late? can it be aborted while still in the womb, even though it should technically be out by now? Can it be killed after it is born?

I already said, once a new sequence of nucleotide bases is formed on DNA, a new human life is formed. Therefore, it is wrong to kill it.

Frownland

When it falls out of its mommy.

Good for that go getter baby, then.

If it can survive on its own, it's not an abortion.

By definition, yes it can be.

I'm going to say yes. I imagine it's pretty easy to kill a baby.

Nah. I'm pro choice, but I was just giving you definitions earlier. DNA is in full supply, a little less is no big whoop.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Chula Vista

What if the mother was raped? What if tests show the baby to be severely retarded and deformed. What if the pregnancy was an accident and the couple do not have the means or maturity to properly raise a child which would probably result in the kid being abused in any number of ways?

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

chopinisawesome

Rape... that's a tougher question. It is a terrible thing, yes. But even though it came from something horrible and despicable, isn't it still a life? Are you saying that the child should be killed because his father did a terrible thing? Again, that's a tough one.

Why would that have anything to do with it? With the proper care and love, retarded/deformed people can live very fulfilling lives.

And the last one. That's just speculation on your part. If someone says, "I'm not ready for a kid; I can't do it" that's really just cold feet. Why are you assuming it would be better for the child to die instead of being in a situation that could be potentially bad based on some sketchy speculations? That's silly. Did you know that Obama's mother considered aborting him?

The Batlord

Science. It may be a nebulous distinction, but a zygote or early fetus definitely does not count as a baby.

There is human DNA in lots of things: skin cells, sperm cells, egg cells, muscle cells, etc. Are these human life? Are they life at all in any meaningful sense? Should they be protected by law?

Just because the "baby process" has been started does not automatically make a cell/group of cells a baby in the sense of a human being with human consciousness.

And if you consider a zygote or a fetus to be a human life that should be protected by law, should not then a doctor who performs an abortion or a woman who has an abortion be charged with 1st degree murder? What about a father who supports the mother's decision, or the abortion clinic nurses who assist with the procedure? Should they be legally complicit in murder?

__________________

chopinisawesome

Sorry. I'll be more specific and use the words "human life" instead.

No. But if you cause almostevery single cell containing that DNA to die, that is murder.

That's just speculation on your part. How do you know there is no human consciousness? You don't even have a leg to stand on there.

Possibly. If you kill a pregnant woman, you can be charged for two murders, so it is possible. It is a complicated situation, however.